BFT 87 Discussion

[JSngry]

Enough to give Richard Dawson a level playing field in that head contest against Fannie Flagg that you were referencing earlier?

Seriously - Barbara Donald was an amazing player...and all but forgotten. Those chops of hers, how strong she plays through some very demanding intervallic things, have caused the jaws of a few "technique-oriented" players around here to drop...so just from a physical level, he work should be noted for all time. Add in the other stuff, and you pretty much got an unknown legend, whatever sense that makes...

[tkeith]

One off, no peakies. (Just a note, I only mention this because I'm not into the forensic exercise of researching the BFT)

Track 1

Horrid sound, but nice feel. I assume this is either from a tape or recorded from speakers to a mic (or both!). That's Dexter. Sounds like Freddie on Flugelhorn, or could be younger Woody Shaw. Pretty ornate keys. I'll guess Pierre Michelot. Drumming is tight and snappy. Not sure. I want to go Lex Humphries, but that's because the bossa beat is corrupting my mind. I like this.

Track 2

This is going to be a fun ride -- lots of percussion right off the bat. Loose and sloppy, just how I like it. Has the feel of a Max group, but no way he'd abide the horns being that sloppy. Could be Ron Bridgewater on tenor. Wild ride, but it holds my interest. Not sure who any of these guys are, but I want to know more. I feel like I should know that drummer. It reminds me a bit of some of Raphe Malik's stuff. Liking this a lot.

Track 3

Now THAT is Max. Not sure what this is, though. You're three-for-three! Keep 'em comin'!

Track 4

What's not to love about this? I can't ID it, though. Recognizable, but I can't nail it.

Track 5

I don't care for the melody. Maybe one of Kenny Barron's projects? Tenor sounds like one of the newer, recordable sound, guys. He's more personable than that, but I'm not really buying his story. I'm not sold on this one.

Track 6

I was accidentally on shuffle and got just a glimpse of this as the second track; I was not looking forward to it. Now that it's here, I'm kind of digging it. I don't care for the piano player, but the head is terrific. Don't hear clarinet in this setting much. It's leading me to guess it might be someone along the lines of ... crap... name is escaping me... guy in that Ivo Perelman crowd... gah! The only clarinetist I can think of that plays the horn like this is Matthieu Belanger, but I've only heard him do that life, not on record.

Track 7

I don't know who this is, but it's not quite grabbing me. Song sounds very familiar, though.

Track 8

Huh... a touch of Kansas City BIG sound and a touch of modern technique. Hints of David Murray. I'd have to go with Ellery Eskelin. I'm not entirely certain, but this is cooking. It's not Ellery. A friend had me listen to Branford's A LOVE SUPREME awhile back. THIS is what I was looking for. Every time he got close he scaled back into his safe zone; this guys doesn't do that at all, it's constantly pushing forward. Unpolished but VERY real. I'm dig!

Track 9

There we go. Gene Ammons is the first tenor. Not sure who the second guy is. I was leaning Dexter, but no where near enough rhythm. I should know this period better, but I don't. I was thinking Monk on piano, but I dare not commit.

Track 10

Much love after 20 seconds! That is one NASTY bari! Tone is a lot like Charles Davis, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to commit to that. Kudos to the guitar for just supporting and staying the hell out of the way. Ideas sound too modern to be Charles, but I can't place the tone. Wondering if bari is not his primary axe. I like this a lot!

Track 11

About three minutes in I was having serious doubts, but once the rhythm section started, I like this a lot. Again, I like this a lot. It's not someone I'm familiar with.

Track 12

One note in, I'm in love. My first thought was Khan Jamal, but this is too inside for that. Still, very much cooks and very organic. Again, I like this a great deal. The beginning of that vibes solo quotes a Hutcherson/Land tune. Can't place the title of it... one of the ballads. I think he's actually quoting the Harold Land line.

Track 13

I don't know who this is, but I like this a lot as well. Man, this is one of the best BFTs in a long time; lots to like! Thanks!

[tkeith]

Jsangry said:

"Besides - Gene Ammons is the answer to every damn question. I've done the math and yes, it is so."

I LOVE this comment!

Man! How the hell did I miss Blackwell!?!?!?!?

[Joe]

Thom -- thanks for the extensive comments. You bring up a whole slew of great and unexpected (for me) reference points for these tracks. I only wish I had the imagination and foresight to have thrown in some Ellery, or Raphe Malik, or Charles Davis (a favorite of mine). But I did not.

Early Hutcherson (I mean, like Moncur III's EVOLUTION Hutch) is an important reference point for #12, I think.

#1 is going to surprise some folks. The tenor soloist especially (I'm going to guess.)

Best,

J

[ghost of miles]

5 = you know, that would take some research, but it is very possible that this composition is related to "Where or When".

Just that that opening phrase is almost verbatim, and then it goes off into its own place. But that opening phrase...

PS -- the trumpet player on track 2 may be the most important / surprising / remarkable member of that ensemble (though the tenor player is quite a story unto himself.)

I was wanting to say Barbara Donald, but didn't....almost, but not quite...

It sounds like one of the Sonny Simmons ESP dates to me--I listened to them fairly recently while putting together a Night Lights show about jazz women of the 1960s, precisely because of Barbara Donald's involvement. Has she recorded or played much since doing those two Cadence records in the early 80s?

[JSngry]

Last I heard, she was dead. Bummer, that.

Tenor player on #1 - Budd Johnson?

[Joe]

Tenor player on #1 - Budd Johnson?

No, this cat wore glasses. I think you're going to like learning who the trumpet player is, too. And the drummer...

Edited June 23, 2011 by Joe

[JSngry]

Barney Wilen with Clark Terry?

[JSngry]

Cool Cees?

http://www.ioffer.com/i/sid-caesar-as-sax-player-kool-cees-1950s-8x10-old-photo-207612556

[Joe]

Wilen is a good guess... though, stylistically, I'd say this cat is closer to Budd than Barney. And the band here is made up entirely of Americans.

Track #1 is not, strictly speaking, a recording. But it is not quite a boot, either. I can't imagine it is listed in an conventional discography (not any that I've consulted, anyway.) That the tune is a bossa nova, or at least bossa-like -- as many have noted -- helps date the performance.

[Big Al]

Tracks 1 & 2: no idea, but I am SERIOUSLY diggin' on these grooves!!!

Oops, looks like I spoke too soon on track 2. Once those guys took off for the stratosphear they lost me. I woulda been happy if the horn players had left the studio and let the rhythm section finish by themselves. Said the grouchy old man.....

Edited June 24, 2011 by Big Al

[Big Al]

Track 3 I had no clue, and I still may be wrong, but it wasn't until the drum solo that it occurred to me that it might be from this?

Track 4 I should know, and I'm gonna kick myself once I find out!

Edited June 24, 2011 by Big Al

[Joe]

Track 3 I had no clue, and I still may be wrong, but it wasn't until the drum solo that it occurred to me that it might be from this?

I'd forgotten about the recording you reference... should pull that out and give it a spin.

The players on #3 are not original be-boppers.

[Big Al]

Well, it's nice to know Thom and I were on the same wavelength!

[Big Al]

Besides - Gene Ammons is the answer to every damn question. I've done the math and yes, it is so.

It certainly answers a helluva lotta questions I've had, that'sfordamnsure!!!

[jeffcrom]

Okay, I've posted kind of late before on some of the blindfold tests, but never this late - almost three weeks after it was over. Apologies to Joe - this was a really excellent selection of music. I listened to some of it right away, but got kind of busy for an old retired guy, and never finished until now. I haven't read this thread or the reveal thread, but I did see the Tom Archia thread, so I know he was involved. Anyway, here are my extremely late comments:

1. The first thing I noticed was the “tubby” sound – is this a radio broadcast. I like the major three/flat three/tonic lick in the melody – that lick always makes me think of Miles. Good, solid playing all around. I especially like the pianist – his/her playing is strong and imaginative. I don’t have any idea who anyone is.

2. Wow – that’s intense. Both horn players sound very familiar to me, but I can’t place them. I particularly like the multiphonics the tenor player gets into. The two drummers (at least) work well together. Good stuff.

3. I like it, but it goes on a little too long, in my opinion. Nice contrast between the spare trumpet playing and intensity of the drums. The drummer is very Max Roach-influenced.

4. The use of the electric bass and the general feel, especially of the introduction, make me think of early Sun Ra, but I don’t recognize this one. Any attempted identification of the excellent trombone and trumpet soloists would just be guesses based on the possibility of this being a Sun Ra track, so I’ll refrain. Excellent music, just far enough off the beaten path to be original and very enjoyable.

5. The pianist plays the unusual melody so confidently that I’m guessing that he wrote it. Interesting drumming – very busy, in a good way. It reminds me of Roy Haynes. Very interesting, unusual tenor playing – strong and off-center at the same time. I feel that I should know who it is, but I can’t come up with a name. Another winner of a track.

6. Wow – great groove, great tune, great players. I especially like the bass clarinet solo (or is that alto clarinet). Again, no idea who it is.

7. Very nice – not earth-shattering. You don’t hear that much bass clarinet played in a more or less straight-ahead, chord changes-type context.

8. Bennie Wallace, from the 1985 Blue Note concert issued on One Night With Blue Note Preserved. The tune is “Broadside.” I bought this when it came out, and was very impressed by Wallace’s playing here – post-modern, but with a lot of Ben Webster going on. The rhythm team is Jack DeJohnette, whom I would have recognized even if I hadn’t already know, and Cecil McBee, whom I probably wouldn’t have.

9. Okay, this is where I should recuse myself, since I saw the Tom Archia thread. I think it’s Archia and Gene Ammons – one of the tenors sure sounds like Gene, and the studio sound is very much like a 1948 track (not this one) by the duo on a Chess CD. In any case, great, great stuff.

10. This is beautiful. I can’t remember the name of the tune, but I’ve got another recording of it. If I wasn’t already so late with this post, I’d spend enough time to figure it out. I love playing baritone sax in duets with folks, because the instrument can accompany so well, as the bari player does here for the guitarist. I don’t know who the folks are, but this is really nice.

11. My first thought was Henry Threadgill, but as the piece proceeded, I don’t think so. The altoist has that “St. Louis” sound, like Oliver Lake or Julius Hemphill. Whoever it is, I like this a lot.

12. More very fine, imaginative music which I don’t know. the altoist sounds influence by Jackie Mac, and the vibist is just fantastic. Great listening and group interaction here.

13. My description of track 7 also applies here – nice, but not especially memorable to me. Or maybe I’m just mad because this pianist stole a chord progression at the cadence of the “A” section from me – A flat/G flat/C. I used that one in a tune about 20 years ago. I guess at this point there are probably no chord progressions that haven’t been used.

Really great BFT, Joe. Sorry again about the late response. Now on to #88, which I haven't listened to yet.