Classical music bargains

[Д.Д.]

Courtesy of Les Bons plans de la misique classique blog - Complete Ravel on Decca / Universal (14 CDs) for €44 at amazon.de: http://www.amazon.de...46875478&sr=8-1

Content listed here: http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Decca/4783725

Edited September 5, 2012 by Д.Д.

[Д.Д.]

Complete Poulenc box (20 CDs) on EMI for €46: http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B0091JQH76/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&smid=A1X6FK5RDHNB96

[Д.Д.]

Complete SamsonFrancois on EMI (36 CDs) - €27 at amazon.es: http://www.amazon.es/Lintegrale-Samson-Francois/dp/B004258ATM/

[king ubu]

Complete SamsonFrancois on EMI (36 CDs) - €27 at amazon.es: http://www.amazon.es/Lintegrale-Samson-Francois/dp/B004258ATM/

recommended!

[B. Goren.]

Complete SamsonFrancois on EMI (36 CDs) - €27 at amazon.es: http://www.amazon.es/Lintegrale-Samson-Francois/dp/B004258ATM/

recommended!

Thank you Д.Д. & Flurin. Order placed.

[king ubu]

Complete SamsonFrancois on EMI (36 CDs) - €27 at amazon.es: http://www.amazon.es/Lintegrale-Samson-Francois/dp/B004258ATM/

recommended!

Thank you Д.Д. & Flurin. Order placed.

You'll get loads of great Chopin there! And plenty of other stuff ... I've not explored it fully yet, but far enough to say it's a great box! The Liszt is very weird, but fascinating. It's as if he's playing it against will, or against the compositions - as if he didn't want to play it (which I guess makes perfect sense with Liszt, doesn't it?)

[J.A.W.]

Could someone please explain to me why (super)large boxes with the complete recordings an artist made for one label (EMI, for instance) are regarded so highly? There will almost always be a fair amount of so-so performances or even duds in complete compilations like that, as no one has ever been good or excellent at everything they recorded. I'm sure those boxes leave one with a fair amount of CDs by one artist that will never be played more than once, maybe twice. Or is it a collector's obsession?

Besides, EMI boxes with historical recordings (not only the "complete" ones) often suffer from sometimes heavy noise reduction, which takes away quite a bit of musical information and can cause distortions (Allen Lowe can explain that much better than I). The Schnabel EMI set with his Beethoven sonatas is a case in point - listen to the Naxos remasters with the same recordings, they sound so much better.

Edited October 8, 2012 by J.A.W.

[Chuck Nessa]

Price per disc makes some of the "so-so" performances seem irrelevant. I purchased the massive RCA Toscanini box to get about 10 recordings I wanted and saved about $100 in the deal.

[J.A.W.]

Price per disc makes some of the "so-so" performances seem irrelevant. I purchased the massive RCA Toscanini box to get about 10 recordings I wanted and saved about $100 in the deal.

Are you saying that acquiring those 10 recordings separately would have cost you about $100 more?

[Chuck Nessa]

Price per disc makes some of the "so-so" performances seem irrelevant. I purchased the massive RCA Toscanini box to get about 10 recordings I wanted and saved about $100 in the deal.

Are you saying that acquiring those 10 recordings separately would have cost you about $100 more?

At least - probably $300.

[J.A.W.]

Price per disc makes some of the "so-so" performances seem irrelevant. I purchased the massive RCA Toscanini box to get about 10 recordings I wanted and saved about $100 in the deal.

Are you saying that acquiring those 10 recordings separately would have cost you about $100 more?

At least - probably $300.

How many recordings does that Toscanini box have - approximately? Just trying to understand what makes this stuff so attractive.

Talking about Toscanini, I've been searching for some of his stuff for ages. The individual RCA CDs I've heard have poor, manipulated/processed sound. I've never heard the Naxos remasters of Toscanini's RCA recordings, but I'm told they sound much better.

[J.A.W.]

Youri Egorov, Master Pianist - EMI - 7CDs - £14 at amazon.co.uk.

Anybody knows Egorov? Never heard of him.

I think I've heard the name before, but know nothing about him. There's no shortage of good recordings of the repertoire on that box, that's for sure.

FWIW, I googled and found some enthusiastic remarks on a classical music forum I don't frequent...

[Added] I also found some enthusiastic comments on r.m.c.r., including sources I trust (e.g. Nicolas Hodges, Jan Winter), although there's a bit of a suggestion that Egorov's live recordings might be preferable to the studio efforts.

I have a few Egorov CDs (EMI). He was a Russian pianist who spent his last years in the Netherlands. He died of AIDS-related diseases in 1988. He was only 33, way too young.

[Chuck Nessa]

This is the 85 disc set I mentioned - WOW!

Much detailed conversation about the transfers in the "reviews". Not sure what transfers you have heard but to quote "in 1992 RCA/BMG released the first 82 CD Toscanini Collection.

That is the template upon which the new Toscanini Collection was assembled.

In 1999 RCA/BMG issued twelve 2 CD sets of Toscanini in new, 20-bit transfers. Most people thought these were an improvement over the 16-bit transfers of 1992. In 2006 Toscanini's Philadelphia Orchestra recordings were issued in new transfers.

Finally in 2008 Sony Japan issued 15 CDs worth of transfers on Japanese JVC XRCDs [most of this material overlapped with the 1999 20-bit transfers]. JVC XRCDs are highly valued by collectors - I could never afford them.

If you're adding this up, approximately one third of the 1992 set was re-done in new and improved transfers."

I ordered before the release date and paid $74.99 delivered.

[J.A.W.]

Here is another bargain to consider, The Complete Jacqueline DuPre on EMI. 17 CDS for $32 through resellers or $38 through amazon. Wow! I only have a little bit of her music...this looks absolutely worth the plunge so I took it!

DuPre on Amazon

She always seemed "over the top" to me.

I agree. Overly sentimental and emotional. Her Elgar cello concerto version with Sir John Barbirolli is her only performance I can stand.

This is the 85 disc set I mentioned - WOW!

Much detailed conversation about the transfers in the "reviews". Not sure what transfers you have heard but to quote "in 1992 RCA/BMG released the first 82 CD Toscanini Collection.

That is the template upon which the new Toscanini Collection was assembled.

In 1999 RCA/BMG issued twelve 2 CD sets of Toscanini in new, 20-bit transfers. Most people thought these were an improvement over the 16-bit transfers of 1992. In 2006 Toscanini's Philadelphia Orchestra recordings were issued in new transfers.

Finally in 2008 Sony Japan issued 15 CDs worth of transfers on Japanese JVC XRCDs [most of this material overlapped with the 1999 20-bit transfers]. JVC XRCDs are highly valued by collectors - I could never afford them.

If you're adding this up, approximately one third of the 1992 set was re-done in new and improved transfers."

I ordered before the release date and paid $74.99 delivered.

I was referring to old RCA CDs. I've not heard the recent transfers. I had a few classical JVC XRCDs (Reiner among them) and hated them, they sounded harsh and pumped-up. The only XRCDs I like are the ones mastered by Alan Yoshida.

[Chuck Nessa]

sigh.

[jazzbo]

As a fledgling classical collector, I like the big boxes. Such great deals financially (I got the same deal as Chuck) and such a wealth of material to explore. I've found very few duds in the four biggest boxes I've bought. Years later I may be able to re-evaluate some of the performances by comparing different interpretations, but I'm far from that and may not be the direction I go.

Edited October 9, 2012 by jazzbo

[J.A.W.]

sigh.

Something I said?

[David Ayers]

Those boxes are certainly not for me. I move slowly and don't have time. I don't like the old recordings much and I don't like the restriction of the repertoire of the days of yore. I also prefer to support current projects and - as people know - hate the board obsession with old recordings and arguments about (tiny amounts of) compensation for (mainly) long-dead artists. Incidentally no-one ever asks about how much Toscanini or Tortelier's estates are getting from these mass back-catalogue offloads.

[Д.Д.]

Those boxes are certainly not for me. I move slowly and don't have time. I don't like the old recordings much and I don't like the restriction of the repertoire of the days of yore. I also prefer to support current projects and - as people know - hate the board obsession with old recordings and arguments about (tiny amounts of) compensation for (mainly) long-dead artists. Incidentally no-one ever asks about how much Toscanini or Tortelier's estates are getting from these mass back-catalogue offloads.

There is an obsession with old recordings on this board? I did not really notice it. The way I see it, people like what they like because they like it - not because the recordings are old. There seems to be a pretty healthy level of curiosity for newer recordings. And since we are at lashing out about hating the obsessions - I actually hate the obsession of living musicians with recording the old repertoire. What's the point exactly? Is there much new word to be said in Mozart or Beethoven?

As for compensation, the artists are probably not getting too much from these boxes, but if there were no re-releases they would be getting nothing at all. And it is interesting that it is you, the main proponent of Spotify here, would bring the compensation question up .

Having said this, I have not bought that many "mono-artist, mono-label" boxes, mainly because of the repertoire. Those that I bought, thought - Glenn Gould Bach, Stokowski EMI Icon, Maurice Andre Erato - I really liked a lot. I bought a few other large boxes (Harmonia Mundi "Enlightenment" being one of the recent purchases), and have been on the whole very impressed by them.

[king ubu]

Those boxes are certainly not for me. I move slowly and don't have time. I don't like the old recordings much and I don't like the restriction of the repertoire of the days of yore. I also prefer to support current projects and - as people know - hate the board obsession with old recordings and arguments about (tiny amounts of) compensation for (mainly) long-dead artists. Incidentally no-one ever asks about how much Toscanini or Tortelier's estates are getting from these mass back-catalogue offloads.

There is an obsession with old recordings on this board? I did not really notice it. The way I see it, people like what they like because they like it - not because the recordings are old. There seems to be a pretty healthy level of curiosity for newer recordings. And since we are at lashing out about hating the obsessions - I actually hate the obsession of living musicians with recording the old repertoire. What's the point exactly? Is there much new word to be said in Mozart or Beethoven?

Yep, I tried to say that last night in the other thread ...

To me, listening to classical music for four months now, these boxes are great on several accounts (and hey, most of the boxes I have contain 6-10 discs, so they're not that massive! Sure, I got the Rubinstein, Ciccolini, Menuhin, François, the Ross/Scarlatti, the Gould/Bach, also the Callas and Toscanini boxes, both of which I've not started digging into yet) ... anyway, I enjoy several aspects about them, one is that lots of repertoire is going to turn up again and again (like the violin concerti by Beethoven, Brahms, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, Mozart's fourth and fifth) and I get a chance to familiarize myself with various realizations of these, which I enjoy very much. Then there's the other aspect that you get, along the way, stuff you might have never bothered to find out about ... like, Chabrier? I love the Chabrier parts of the Marcelle Meyer box a whole lot! Or that british stuff that Bev so often recommends, Elgar, Delius, whomever ... don't ask me why but I'd not have gone there, still probably wouldn't go looking for any Elgar disc (the day might come, but it's definitely not here).

And yes, you do get things that you wouldn't need - like, Horowitz' Beethoven I could absolutely do without, same with Meyers Mozart, and I'm sure I'll find some of this in the Ciccolini, Menuhin and François boxes as I make my way through them, too ... and I might have found some of that in the various ICON boxes as well, but if, say, Milstein has to play some concerto with a not quite up to par conductor, it's still an interesting thing to hear how Milstein copes with that and tries to still get closer to the work in question.

As there is no "right" way to play any piece - hey, it's ink on paper, it's an idea, an abstract thought - I'm very much in favour or comparing various recordings, listening to them in a row or over a period of a few days, sort of circling in that "idea" ... I guess next step will be to read along while listening, or maybe even read in advance (for which I have no time now, reading along I did very few times and found it to be most fascinating ... to see the, how to call it, graphical side, the abstraction, and then hear one particular realization at the same time).

Plus, very blandly put, as a newbie with (massive) collector leanings, these boxes are a convenient way to find stuff.

For instance, I'd love to get a box of Ginette Neveu's - I've paid probably double to triple the sum to get a few discs (some used ones that you hardly find anymore) than if I could have gotten an ICON or whatever box. I enjoy the way these boxes present a snapshot of an artist - though obviously it's a choice in many cases (except with the massive complete boxes) and may or may not be a particularly valid one.

[David Ayers]

Those boxes are certainly not for me. I move slowly and don't have time. I don't like the old recordings much and I don't like the restriction of the repertoire of the days of yore. I also prefer to support current projects and - as people know - hate the board obsession with old recordings and arguments about (tiny amounts of) compensation for (mainly) long-dead artists. Incidentally no-one ever asks about how much Toscanini or Tortelier's estates are getting from these mass back-catalogue offloads.

There is an obsession with old recordings on this board? I did not really notice it. The way I see it, people like what they like because they like it - not because the recordings are old. There seems to be a pretty healthy level of curiosity for newer recordings. And since we are at lashing out about hating the obsessions - I actually hate the obsession of living musicians with recording the old repertoire. What's the point exactly? Is there much new word to be said in Mozart or Beethoven?

As for compensation, the artists are probably not getting too much from these boxes, but if there were no re-releases they would be getting nothing at all. And it is interesting that it is you, the main proponent of Spotify here, would bring the compensation question up .

Having said this, I have not bought that many "mono-artist, mono-label" boxes, mainly because of the repertoire. Those that I bought, thought - Glenn Gould Bach, Stokowski EMI Icon, Maurice Andre Erato - I really liked a lot. I bought a few other large boxes (Harmonia Mundi "Enlightenment" being one of the recent purchases), and have been on the whole very impressed by them.

Well, even in the new releases section of the board old recordings abound.

I have no problem with the compensation issue on Spotify or anywhere - but others do which is what I was mentioning.

By the way I am hardly lashing out here, am I? I referred to an opinion of mine which is well-known. I wasn't distinguishing between old classical and old jazz recordings in what I wrote - I see the interest in old records as being of a piece across both genres. I do think the obsession with compensation for recordings made over 50 years ago indicates a misplaced priority - it's well known that is my opinion. In the case of classical music, I don't see why older pieces should not continue to be performed - music is a practice not an archive of recordings.

[Д.Д.]

Those boxes are certainly not for me. I move slowly and don't have time. I don't like the old recordings much and I don't like the restriction of the repertoire of the days of yore. I also prefer to support current projects and - as people know - hate the board obsession with old recordings and arguments about (tiny amounts of) compensation for (mainly) long-dead artists. Incidentally no-one ever asks about how much Toscanini or Tortelier's estates are getting from these mass back-catalogue offloads.

There is an obsession with old recordings on this board? I did not really notice it. The way I see it, people like what they like because they like it - not because the recordings are old. There seems to be a pretty healthy level of curiosity for newer recordings. And since we are at lashing out about hating the obsessions - I actually hate the obsession of living musicians with recording the old repertoire. What's the point exactly? Is there much new word to be said in Mozart or Beethoven?

As for compensation, the artists are probably not getting too much from these boxes, but if there were no re-releases they would be getting nothing at all. And it is interesting that it is you, the main proponent of Spotify here, would bring the compensation question up .

Having said this, I have not bought that many "mono-artist, mono-label" boxes, mainly because of the repertoire. Those that I bought, thought - Glenn Gould Bach, Stokowski EMI Icon, Maurice Andre Erato - I really liked a lot. I bought a few other large boxes (Harmonia Mundi "Enlightenment" being one of the recent purchases), and have been on the whole very impressed by them.

Well, even in the new releases section of the board old recordings abound.

I have no problem with the compensation issue on Spotify or anywhere - but others do which is what I was mentioning.

By the way I am hardly lashing out here, am I? I referred to an opinion of mine which is well-known. I wasn't distinguishing between old classical and old jazz recordings in what I wrote - I see the interest in old records as being of a piece across both genres. I do think the obsession with compensation for recordings made over 50 years ago indicates a misplaced priority - it's well known that is my opinion. In the case of classical music, I don't see why older pieces should not continue to be performed - music is a practice not an archive of recordings.

Let's hold my bad English accountable for "lashing out". If you talk about "new releases" in the jazz section of this board, well, this is a retro-leaning place, no news here. I remember there was this funny-something thread maintained by a grand total of three people interested in new-ish music, but they are all gone now. I don't necessarily see the retro-veneration in the classical discussions (well, among all five posters who have interest in sort of discussing classical music here).

As for classical repertoire being performed today, I am more or less OK with this (although it does get fucking annoying here in Vienna where 60+% of performed repertoire is Mozart and Beethoven)... "live music is a different experience" and all that. I don't quite understand the point of 20-somethings churning out yet another record if Chopin, Mozart, Schubert you name it, when perhaps as much as 90% of all composed music has never been recorded. OK, it sells, but wtf anyway.

[J.A.W.]

I remember there was this funny-something thread maintained by a grand total of three people interested in new-ish music, but they are all gone now.

I'm not sure those people - I think you're referring to Tony ("Chaney") and John B and maybe a few more - left the board purely because hardly any interest was shown in their quest for new-ish music. Tony also had other reasons. John B last posted just over a month ago.

Edited October 8, 2012 by J.A.W.

[J.A.W.]

As for classical repertoire being performed today, I am more or less OK with this (although it does get fucking annoying here in Vienna where 60+% of performed repertoire is Mozart and Beethoven)...

Maybe you should consider moving to Amsterdam; the Concertgebouw's yearly programming includes quite a bit of adventurous and newer music.

[Bigshot]

hate the board obsession with old recordings and arguments about (tiny amounts of) compensation for (mainly) long-dead artists

How much money does a long dead artist need? Do they need pocket change for cigarettes in heaven?

As for me, I really love historical performances. There's a lot more personality in them. Some might call that over the top, but I like a performer to put his own thoughts into the mix. There isn't enough of that today. Also, the quality of remastering has improved exponentially in the past few years. Schnabel is far from representative.