Steve Lacy

[blind-blake]

Dusty Groove adds the illuminating comment:

 

"... Irene Aebi sings her usual wordless kind of things ... "

 

 

 

Dusty Groove's item descriptions have always bugged the &%$*@ out of me. I still shop there, but I can't read their vapid copy. I swear, if you deleted the words "little" (every other item is called "a great little record"), "angular" (somehow meant to portray anything except possibly Lester Young), and "genius" — well, their whole catalog of copy would have holes in it.

I once read an absolutely glowing review on the DG site of a Horace Silver play-along record. (They weren't reviewing it as a play-along record, but as a record for regular listening.)  Still, I love those guys. You just have to ignore much of their commentary.

Edited October 6, 2015 by blind-blake

[clifford_thornton]

 I don't think that you get to complain about bootlegs and file sharing when you refuse to have the stuff in your (or others') possession released.

Except as a basic violation of privacy, perhaps?

Of course, what constitutes "privacy" these days, right?

I'm of two minds on this. 

In part I want to applaud someone for holding out on the possibility that a million-dollar deal might come through, because the music is high quality and people deserve to be paid well more than they are for their art.

But I also think that pushing away good deals because one wants a million dollars is foolish, and people will find a way to release music and charge money for it with or without you.

[JSngry]

Yeah, that's a pain that I also feel.

But a part of me also feels that just because something exists, that does not create a parallel imperative that it be heard by its potential audience.

So, if you're just being stupid with your business, that's one thing. But if it really is a value vs worth thing, then where does the final right to concede exposure reside?

And to that end, all the more reason to have your estate lined up before you die. Otherwise, you've squandered not just one, but two generations of potential opportunity.

[clifford_thornton]

All very true.

[danasgoodstuff]

Dusty Groove adds the illuminating comment:

 

"... Irene Aebi sings her usual wordless kind of things ... "

 

 

 

Dusty Groove's item descriptions have always bugged the &%$*@ out of me. I still shop there, but I can't read their vapid copy. I swear, if you deleted the words "little" (every other item is called "a great little record"), "angular" (somehow meant to portray anything except possibly Lester Young), and "genius" — well, their whole catalog of copy would have holes in it.

I once read an absolutely glowing review on the DG site of a Horace Silver play-along record. (They weren't reviewing it as a play-along record, but as a record for regular listening.)  Still, I love those guys. You just have to ignore much of their commentary.

They are the Kings of Unintentional (if not unconscious) Hyperbole...

[ombudsman]

 I don't think that you get to complain about bootlegs and file sharing when you refuse to have the stuff in your (or others') possession released.

Except as a basic violation of privacy, perhaps?

Of course, what constitutes "privacy" these days, right?

It's not just about privacy; it's about property rights, dignity, standards of quality, context, and terms. The rights of the estate are not constrained by other people's disrespect and desire to exploit Steve's music for their own gain.

[clifford_thornton]

what I'm saying is that the estate is doing a disservice as well by refusing even good deals from respected labels. It seems like a waste. Sure, they have a right never to release anything they own for less than a million bucks or whatever, but c'mon... I feel like that kind of attitude encourages people to do things within the grey market.

[ombudsman]

what I'm saying is that the estate is doing a disservice as well by refusing even good deals from respected labels. It seems like a waste. Sure, they have a right never to release anything they own for less than a million bucks or whatever, but c'mon... I feel like that kind of attitude encourages people to do things within the grey market.

I'm guessing the jazz equivalent of that figure is around $5000-10,000. Probably often less, for out there material. Myself, I've never lost less than $1000 on a release.

I don't think it's grey market that we're talking about. Certainly not if the material has never been legitimately released; not even nations with the most loose copyright laws allow for that.

I feel there is an entitlement mentality to some of that kind of thinking, and it can become a circular argument. Bootleggers and file "sharers" say they are justified by the lack of an official release... the person that owns the rights can't be sure they can break even on an official release because the stuff is on youtube and blogs and it's hard to compete with free, while getting quality audio work and packaging and press costs real up front money and work.

No matter how common it may be for them to be screwed out of it, it remains the artists (or estates) right to choose when and on what terms to place their work on the market. I understand the counter arguments, but when you get down to the actual person themselves (rather than a faceless imaginary corporate stand in for their interests), I think it should be pretty easy to understand why a person who spent decades practicing getting to the point they are musically might want to either do something the right way, or if that can't happen, just not do it at all.

Personally I think that, counter to the idea that any exposure is good exposure and that the market can take any amount of any quality information and still want more,  first impressions (and priming and associative memory) are absolutely critical things to the prospect of any artists career. When we take away their ability to control that, and their choice to limit the supply of their recordings that are on the market to just the best ones, we kill careers and sometimes force people out of playing music except as their private hobby.

 

[clifford_thornton]

I see what you're saying - believe me - but we are talking about a specific estate, specific people, and numeric figures (or ballparks) that have been quoted, usually resulting in labels that balk (i.e., high five figure guarantee minimum on a release that won't make that - ever). Certainly the estate has that right, but it seems absurd. I'm far from a fan of grey market material, but consider myself a scholar of the music and try to hear as much as I possibly can. 

[B. Clugston]

On October 5, 2015 at 8:13 AM, colinmce said:

Not sure anyone else noticed, but earlier this summer Martin Davidson announced a disc of performances from the last Lacy tour featuring the Beat Suite band.  The information has since disappeared from the Emanem site, so I assume this project has been cancelled.  A pity. (I can think of one possible culprit, unfortunately)

Looks like the Last Tour was released earlier this year on Emanem: http://www.emanemdisc.com/E5039.html

[soulpope]

18 hours ago, B. Clugston said:

Looks like the Last Tour was released earlier this year on Emanem: http://www.emanemdisc.com/E5039.html

Thnx for the hint ....

[clifford_thornton]

I've got it. It's good.

[jeffcrom]

I just came across a really nice four-page tribute page to Lacy on Point of Departure, consisting of quotes by his colleagues. It looks like it's from 2008, but I wasn't aware of it until tonight.

http://www.pointofdeparture.org/PoD17/PoD17Esteem1.html

[MomsMobley]

bura-bura masahiko togashi

irene aebi rules people should be grateful for & study the texts / authors alone inc. blaise cendrars, bob kaufman +++

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by MomsMobley

[B. Clugston]

Distant Voices, one of five excellent albums Steve Lacy recorded during his 1975 tour of Japan, has been reissued on vinyl. Good news as it's $475 cheaper than the last copy I had a shot at. This one features pianist Yuji Takahashi and Taj Mahal Travellers' Takehisa Kosugi and is unique and out there in a indescribable manner. This one did get a CD issue over 10 years ago. The other four albums from the tour remain only obtainable in their original Japanese issues and each cost a lot! Hope someone reissues them. Stalks, in particular, is among Lacy's best.

[Guy Berger]

I recently head The Window for the first time (w/Avenel and Jackson) and it's really good.

TBH, I've struggled with some of Lacy's more abstract or vocal-oriented outings, but I enjoy him in relatively straight ahead settings like this one, the collaborations w/Waldron, and the solo saxophone Monk albums.

[JSngry]

41 minutes ago, Guy Berger said:

TBH, I've struggled with some of Lacy's more abstract or vocal-oriented outings...

I don't know if I'd use the word "struggle", exactly, but some of it, yeah, I've had to give it time to...reveal itself. and I can honestly say that nothing has failed to at least partially do that, and that more than a few times it's done so fully.

Steve Lacy is (not was) somebody who I trust, implicitly. If I can't get to it at least a little, it's not his fault. He's earned that in my estimation, for me.

Even Irene Aebi, I have come around on her, and believe me, THAT took a while. But again - trust rewarded!

[Late]

On 9/21/2018 at 6:14 PM, B. Clugston said:

Stalks, in particular, is among Lacy's best.

Much agreed. I only have the nachosphere's cleaned up version of Stalks, but would pounce on a CD issue.

7 hours ago, JSngry said:

Steve Lacy is (not was) somebody who I trust, implicitly. If I can't get to it at least a little, it's not his fault. He's earned that in my estimation, for me.

Also much agreed.

As for Aëbi, I've been a fan for a while, but will admit I wasn't at first. Quite a few years ago, Lacy wrote in to DownBeat in response to some critic's ... criticism of her singing. I can't remember what Lacy said precisely, but the gist of it was that if you were going to understand his (Lacy's) music, well, Aëbi was a central part of it. Meaning, actually central. Just as much as Lotte Lenya was central to Kurt Weill. After I made that connection, it was like—pop!—the singing fell into place. I no longer resist her presence on Lacy's records; in fact, I actually look for it. I still will concede she's an acquired taste, but it is a Lacy taste, if you will.

[soulpope]

I would really appreciate a new Steve Lacy archive release ....

[Late]

46 minutes ago, soulpope said:

I would really appreciate a new Steve Lacy archive release ....

Was the last one Stamps on Corbett vs. Dempsey?

[soulpope]

3 minutes ago, Late said:

Was the last one Stamps on Corbett vs. Dempsey?

Probably .... btw this was a reissue of a 1979 Hat Hut Records release ....

[Late]

Just now, soulpope said:

Probably .... btw this was a reissue of a 1979 Hat Hut Records release ....

Yes, with one track ("Follies," I believe) added to the original album. I don't know if all the original HatHut albums Lacy made have all been reissued. Did Ballets ever make it to compact disc?

What archival release would whet the appetite? When Disposability and Sortie were reissued together, I was thrilled. That was a great reissue.

[soulpope]

3 minutes ago, Late said:

Yes, with one track ("Follies," I believe) added to the original album. I don't know if all the original HatHut albums Lacy made have all been reissued. Did Ballets ever make it to compact disc?

What archival release would whet the appetite? When Disposability and Sortie were reissued together, I was thrilled. That was a great reissue.

Would appreciate unreleased Trio recordings with Jean-Jacques Avenel .... but actually any previously unrelased material would be of interest ....

[Late]

Just now, soulpope said:

Would appreciate unreleased trio recordings with Jean-Jacques Avenel .... but actually any previously unreleased material would be of interest ....

 

[romualdo]

4 hours ago, Late said:

Did Ballets ever make it to compact disc

LP #1 (Hedges - live Switzerland 81) of the double LP set (Ballets) was released in 2014 on the double Emanem CD "Cycles". The Emanem release has a further 5 previously unreleased tracks from the same concert. AFAIK the second LP (The 4 Edges) has never made it to CD.

https://www.discogs.com/release/6122361-Steve-Lacy-Cycles-1976-80