johnlitweiler Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 (ah, that Missouri alto sax tradition, from KC to StL), Flowchart or it didn't happen, please, (preferably made with Visio).. Buster Smith to Bird to Hemphill and Lake. Don't you think a lot of Hemphill's phrasing is extremely Parkerlike? Quote
JSngry Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 Absolutely, but we can't trust our ears and common sense - we need flowcharts. ! (although...Buster Smith was a Texas guy...but again, flowcharts or it didn't happen) Quote
AllenLowe Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 I see those connections but also, very powerfully, Dolphy. And interestingly enough the only other alto Julius ever mentioned to me by name was Lee Konitz. Quote
JSngry Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 If you go to Dolphy, you go to Sonny Criss, I think...all those L.A. altoists have a certain tinge to their tone & a certain pronounced rhythmic curlicue that as far as I can tell is coming out of Criss' reaction to Bird. Of course, the way stuff happens in real time is never quite as cut and dried/easily delineated as it is after the fact... Q.E.D. in-DEED! Quote
Larry Kart Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 If you go to Dolphy, you go to Sonny Criss, I think...all those L.A. altoists have a certain tinge to their tone & a certain pronounced rhythmic curlicue that as far as I can tell is coming out of Criss' reaction to Bird. Of course, the way stuff happens in real time is never quite as cut and dried/easily delineated as it is after the fact... Q.E.D. in-DEED! Earl Anderza, too: And Jimmy Woods: Quote
king ubu Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 ok, amended... but that's about it with my disabilities Quote
JSngry Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 Saul Goode! (although we could use a line from Bird to Sonny Criss to Dolphy...but I don't have Visio, so oh well!) Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 Saul Goode! (although we could use a line from Bird to Sonny Criss to Dolphy...but I don't have Visio, so oh well!) Phil Woods would fuck all this up for some folks. Quote
AllenLowe Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 Pete Brown? Greatest blues alto player ever, in some opinions. Ubu - time to draw another line. Quote
Leeway Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 In an interview with Tim Berne, who was a student of Hemphill, by Duncan Heining, Berne had this to say about influence: It's been suggested that Ornette was quite an influence of Hemphill's music but Berne dismisses this. "If they're from Texas and knew Ornette and they're not playing chord changes, then they're going to say he sounds like Ornette. His first influences were really Charlie Parker, Lee Konitz—he had a band that used to play Gerry Mulligan arrangements—and he was totally into Cannonball." Check out the full interview here: Tim Berne on Hemphill Quote
king ubu Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 Pete Brown? Greatest blues alto player ever, in some opinions. Ubu - time to draw another line. Where can he be heard? I've got the shortish Hawkins Newport 1957 disc and some stray stuff here and there (Frankie Newton, Sir Charles Thompson, Coleman Hawkins, Buster Bailey, Leonard Feather) Quote
AllenLowe Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 best stuff is from the 1940s - there's a Classic CD - and there's a solo on a Helen Humes Decca, called Unlucky Women, that may be the single funkiest alto solo ever put on record. Quote
PHILLYQ Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 ok, amended... but that's about it with my disabilities Your flow chart reminded me of another alto player, Anthony Braxton- it looks like the title of one of his pieces. Quote
brownie Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 The Classics Pete Brown is very hard to get... Try your luck with that Progressive CD (with Jonah Jones): Pete Brown is on several sessions of the Frankie Newton 1937-1939 Classics (probably also hard to get): Even harder to get (probably) is his Verve album 'From the Heart' recorded in 1959 (and not really his best!) Quote
Larry Kart Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 best stuff is from the 1940s - there's a Classic CD - and there's a solo on a Helen Humes Decca, called Unlucky Women, that may be the single funkiest alto solo ever put on record. "Unlucky Woman" is on Spotify, along with a lot more vintage Pete Brown. And Humes sings her butt off on "Unlucky Woman," too. Quote
Larry Kart Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 Another excellent but semi-forgotten earthy "jump" altoist of the time was Don Stovall. Check out on Spotify his "Check Up" with Red Allen from (I think) 1947. And some Stovall on YouTube (with some nice Byas and top-drawer Lips Page on "Lafayette"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv1Dthm22Vw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O90qaOLXjZw Quote
Larry Kart Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 And Stovall with Red Allen, J.C. Higginbotham, and drummer Alvin Burroughs in a soundie! Quote
king ubu Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 Wow, thanks for all the replies, will check out the links (and spotify if it works here) tomorrow! I do have the Frankie Newton Classiscs disc, but damn if I knew where it is right now... will dig for it tomorrow, too. Your flow chart reminded me of another alto player, Anthony Braxton- it looks like the title of one of his pieces. Ha! Make that a big fat line from Poppa Lee to Tony, please! Quote
danasgoodstuff Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 Pete Brown can also be heard on Champion Jack Dupree's Blues From the Gutter, IIRC! Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 Pete Brown give me hives. Sorry, I just can't appreciate him. Quote
Larry Kart Posted October 3, 2011 Report Posted October 3, 2011 Pete Brown give me hives. Sorry, I just can't appreciate him. Probably related to that rash you get from Cannonball. Quote
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