JLH reissue plans

[Stefan Wood]

I just did a huge post for all of you but of course lost it all never to be found again. I'm terrible with the blog for which I apologize. I'll try and summarize. I've lost my flow and rhythm but here goes. Stefan, I'm listening to Little Bird Suite. it makes an excellent contrast to the Fischer. Listen to track one of Little Bird and you'll see the voicing are not that original. They are good. But not brilliant. Listen to side II track one, Little Bird. The voicings are actually hackneyed. And track II side one, Bird of Paradise is very similar to Sketches of Spain. So are the voicings on Side II Track II Canto de Oriole. Very much like Evans. Whereas listen to the flute voicings of Fischer and compare with Dick Grove's work on Bird of Paradise. They aren't in the same league. I wish they were. Do you know how badly I'd love to release Little Bird Suite? It would be perfect because it gives me another reissue and I have a great line into EMI. But it is not a great album. It is very good. But too many cliches. I listened to it the first time and thought it was great. But the more I listen the more I hear from other composers and some of it like on Little Bird is downright cliched. Same with Track III of Side two, Doodad. Not original voicing and harmonizing at all. But a very good album and nice playing. Then I listen to Fischer and it is from another world, Clare's. So I do understand you liking the Little Bird Suite and that is an aesthetic reaction and choice. But objectively, they aren't in the same league. And again, I wish they were for my reissue program. Anyway, Stefan see how the Fischer grows or doesn't grow on you. But if you objectively listen to the Fischer than go to track one Side II of Grove's album, I think you'll see what I mean objectively (not aesthetically). Hope this helps a bit.

I brought the cd with me to work to listen. I have the lp of the Dick Grove (made a burn onto cd a while ago, can't find it at the moment -- must be in the "archives."). I promise to provide a more detailed response. I really like "Igor." There's a lot going on in that piece. As for the rest? I'll let you know, but what crept into my mind was that this music was very similar to what Shorty Rogers had done with his extended "exotic" suites, or Les Baxter, Frank Comstock, etc. That's not a put down. Fischer obviously has come from a different angle, but how much different?

Listened to it some more this late afternoon/early evening. There are some things that reveal better upon repeated listening; and there are others that just don't.

"Ornithardy" is one of the sunniest tunes I've heard, up there with Miles and Gil's "Springville." Jerry Coker and Gary Foster (was this his first recorded appearance?) are great on this, as well as throughout the entire album. "Quiet Dawn" has some exquisite playing by Fischer, but overall I find it just okay. I guess I hear a Gil Evans influence more than Fischer, though I read in the notes he was more in tune with what Lee Konitz was doing. There's a strong intellectual craftsmanship to this and the next track, "Bittersweet" that objectively is interesting, but I can't connect to either aesthetically or emotionally. It's frustrating because the playing is top notch; I'm being drawn in by the playing, but at the same time I'm being pushed away. As if the process supercedes the end result. The clever workings of "Quiet Dawn" and "Bittersweet" call more attention to themselves than they should, and interferes with me hearing the music. I love "Igor." It's fun, playful, toe tapping goodness. "Extension" is the tune that reminds me of Ellington. Did not know that it was Fischer playing the sax and not Coker, on that and "Soloette." "Passacaglia" does nothing for me. Finally, "Canto Africano." I prefer Fischer's work in a Latin setting, and know of his accomplishments. This reminds me of Les Baxter. Seriously. The exotic stuff -- Shorty Rogers' Tarzan Suite, Prado's Voodoo Suite, etc. It's nice, but not "exceptional."

I'm glad I brought up Dick Grove as a "counterpoint" so to speak, since on doing some research I discovered they had some things in common. They both did work for the Hi-Lo's for example; as well as working in Hollywood and composing and arranging around the same time. "Little Bird Suite" wears Gil Evans a bit more on its sleeve than "Extension," and I will admit that the musicianship is of a slightly higher standard on Extension, but I think you are being unfair in describing some of the tracks as clichés. "Little Bird" started as a bossa nova tune for Pete Jolly and became popular, subsequently recorded by many other musicians. This is the best version. I do not think that "Canto de Oriole," "Doodad", and "Circlet" are hackneyed, but contain some very fine playing, especially from Paul Horn and Bill Robinson. The whole album starts of with a post Sketches of Spain feel, but grows away from it's influence, and has its own character. I would strongly recommend you relisten to the lp, especially the second side.

I'm thankful for your reissue program, and I hope you don't mind my criticisms. I will look forward to the Joe Daley box!

Edited April 26, 2012 by Stefan Wood

[jonathanhorwich]

Stefan, thanks for your superb description and being so honest. I'm going to listen to Dick Grove again for sure and objectively. Thanks again for taking the time to listen and report what you heard. It is really appreciated.

[colinmce]

I have Extension on the way. Excited to see it and hear it.

[Clunky]

Received Extension CD yesterday, sound is very full with enormous bass sound. I have a mono LP version which sounds is great and is in perfect condition but it doesn't quite have the majesty of this excellent CD version. If only all reissues sounded this good......

[Late]

If only all reissues sounded this good ...

You can say that again. Listened to this CD three times today. Gorgeous sound/remastering. The Gil Evans influence is present, but not derivative. This is certainly Clare Fischer's music, and the way he moves the clarinet voicings, for one example, doesn't sound like Evans to me at all (while, in contrast, the French horns sound noticeably Evans-esque).

This is one of those CDs that somehow makes your stereo system sound better. It's a joy just to listen to, but the music itself, when closely attended to, pays dividends. This isn't of course high-speed hardbop — nor is it some kind of sleepy orchestral jazz. This is music for hearing, and, as a result, thinking about. It won't be everyone's cup of tea. But, in the end, I think its durability will hold up. If it makes any sense, this is patient music. Very little seems patient these days.

[jonathanhorwich]

Thanks for kind words Funkateer and Master of the Groove. I do appreciate it. I'd hate to put something out too many people think is just okay.

I think I put things a bit off topic and maybe even off the rails by defending my Fischer release. The reason I entered the forum here is to get ideas from knowledgable people such as read this blog so I can reissue jazz of the highest quality. So going on about how I feel about a release I already put out on my own without the community input has nothing to do with this blog and I apologize to all of you for throwing things a bit off track. Whether one likes the Fischer or not is not actually the point of this thread. (I really care what you guys think of my releases but once out, well what is done is done, and I should not be defending or "promoting" them on this blog.)

The point is what can I issue in the future that is of the highest quality. And I know there are many performances I have not heard and which many of you have turned me onto. So with that said from now on I'll keep my contributions on point. I'm about to put out Jeremy Steig, Flute Fever next. So that is set in stone. And after that will be Carter Bradford FD and the Giant Awakens probably and Joe Daley. I believe most agree with the worth of those performances. But I'm going to NYC in a month to do the Steig transfers and it hit me that Rod Levitt's RCA recording, Insight could be transferred at the same time.

Hence, back on track, I would appreciate input from all of you that have heard it if you think it is in the category we are all discussing for reissue. It is surely a very fine album. Really fine. But I'm not sure if it is quite there or not. Darn close. Really nicely done.

So fire away.

Edited April 30, 2012 by JLH

[dougcrates]

I think the Rod Levitt would be an excellent choice. It may not be a five star album but it's very good and very interesting and to my knowledge has never been issued completely on CD.

[clifford_thornton]

I have both Levitt RCAs and they're quite good - I need to pull those out again and remind myself, as it's been a while.

[Stefan Wood]

Insight is a very good album.

[bogdan101]

I'm listening to Dogon A.D. as I'm typing; managed to grab a copy from someone on discogs.com for a decent price. It's awesome, just like Dixon's Intents and Purposes. I have a question though: this must be the most luxurious packaging I've seen on a cd yet, but the thing is, inside it's still just a plain old redbook compact disc. Why not include a sacd or dvd-a disc to make it even better in the sound department?

Cheers!

[J.A.W.]

I'm listening to Dogon A.D. as I'm typing; managed to grab a copy from someone on discogs.com for a decent price. It's awesome, just like Dixon's Intents and Purposes. I have a question though: this must be the most luxurious packaging I've seen on a cd yet, but the thing is, inside it's still just a plain old redbook compact disc. Why not include a sacd or dvd-a disc to make it even better in the sound department?

Cheers!

An SACD or a DVD-A would be much more expensive to manufacture and it would jack up the price, making it an even more niche product than it already is. And I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think there are many people who like this kind of music and own an SACD or DVD-A player.

Edited April 30, 2012 by J.A.W.

[JETman]

I won't link it, lest I get reprimanded, but Insight was combined with Solid Ground on a cd 2 years ago.

[JETman]

I'm listening to Dogon A.D. as I'm typing; managed to grab a copy from someone on discogs.com for a decent price. It's awesome, just like Dixon's Intents and Purposes. I have a question though: this must be the most luxurious packaging I've seen on a cd yet, but the thing is, inside it's still just a plain old redbook compact disc. Why not include a sacd or dvd-a disc to make it even better in the sound department?

Cheers!

While I for one applaud, appreciate and do not in any way want to diminish the significance of Mr. Horwich's efforts in this area, the Japanese have been producing "luxurious packaging" for cd's in all genres of music for at least 20 years!

[colinmce]

I won't link it, lest I get reprimanded, but Insight was combined with Solid Ground on a cd 2 years ago.

For this reason and most importantly because I think it is a good album rather than a great one I would say skip Insights. Stacked against the individual musical visions of Dixon, Hemphill, Fischer, Carter-Bradford and Tapscott, and the divinely inspired playing of Denny Zeitlin and Russell Thorne, it simply doesn't match up for me.

[bogdan101]

I'm listening to Dogon A.D. as I'm typing; managed to grab a copy from someone on discogs.com for a decent price. It's awesome, just like Dixon's Intents and Purposes. I have a question though: this must be the most luxurious packaging I've seen on a cd yet, but the thing is, inside it's still just a plain old redbook compact disc. Why not include a sacd or dvd-a disc to make it even better in the sound department?

Cheers!

An SACD or a DVD-A would be much more expensive to manufacture and it would jack up the price, making it an even more niche product than it already is. And I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think there are many people who like this kind of music and own an SACD or DVD-A player.

Well my first choice would have been a vinyl reissue, but if it must be digital (to accommodate extra tracks for instance), a hi-rez format would be very nice. Tahra is reissuing Furtwangler on sacd for about 10 euros a pop these days.

[Late]

Tahra is reissuing Furtwangler on sacd ...

Hybrid SACD, no? The 1954 Lucerne concert is at least hybrid SACD.

Personally, I'm not sure that SACD or DVD-A would make all that much difference in this case. Jonathan's remastering — for all three reissues, so far — sounds better to me than some of the (hybrid) SACDs I own. I don't own an SACD player, by the way (adding import to Hans's observation). I would own one ... if I didn't spend my money on reissues!

These International Phonograph reissues sound as good to me as Audio Wave's XRCD reissues (another niche market program).

[jonathanhorwich]

Jetman, thanks. Yep, it is available in an import. Sometimes I ignore the fact that performances are out on CD in a foreign country but this is available here at Amazon, and it is not in the same class as the other performances which we are discussing and which will come out first anyway. So I'm decided not to issue at least for a long time, just from this immediate feedback which I very much appreciate. On another matter I am entertaining the idea of issuing Dogon A.D. on vinyl and even reel to reel tape for those people who have them--about 100 people if I'm lucky. And I may follow some of these other releases with vinyl and tape. But always after the CD is issued. My whole thing is trying to find performances that aren't out on CD and make them easily available. So CD is my first choice to issue, although my first choice sound wise is reel to reel, then vinyl and then digital. And yes, Jetman, there have been some Japanese packaging that is gorgeous. And that is why I get the covers done in Tokyo. My packaging is not original, except maybe the consistent use of the double spread for one CD.

Edited May 1, 2012 by JLH

[jazzbo]

Tahra is reissuing Furtwangler on sacd ...

Hybrid SACD, no? The 1954 Lucerne concert is at least hybrid SACD.

Personally, I'm not sure that SACD or DVD-A would make all that much difference in this case. Jonathan's remastering — for all three reissues, so far — sounds better to me than some of the (hybrid) SACDs I own. I don't own an SACD player, by the way (adding import to Hans's observation). I would own one ... if I didn't spend my money on reissues!

These International Phonograph reissues sound as good to me as Audio Wave's XRCD reissues (another niche market program).

I do own a SACD player, two actually, and I must say that these reissues would sound even more fantastic on SACD. I don't think the economics would allow SACD issues from JLH, but they would be welcome at my house and I know they would sound even more fantastic than the Redbook cds do. Mastering of this quality on SACD sounds amazing.

[mikeweil]

Same here - two different SACD players, but I have some SACD reissues that do not improve on a perfectly done red book CD remastering - the Hemphill, for one thing, sounds so good that there's hardly anything legt to be desired. I think SACD high resolution works best in the case of natural ambience recordings with minimal miking - Dogon A.D. seems to be a multi-track recording, where the difference is not that spectacular to a well done vinyl or CD reissue.

I say it again - there should be a subscription available to JLH's reissues!

[romualdo]

I'm about to put out Jeremy Steig, Flute Fever next. So that is set in stone. And after that will be Carter Bradford FD and the Giant Awakens probably and Joe Daley. I believe most agree with the worth of those performances. But I'm going to NYC in a month to do the Steig transfers and it hit me that Rod Levitt's RCA recording, Insight could be transferred at the same time.

Jonathan

Are you having second thoughts re the Tapscott reissue or am I misinterpreting "and the Giant Awakens probably"

I'm currently reading Horace's biography "Songs Of The Unsung" & he mentions (p 115) an unreleased/unfinished album "We recorded The Giant Is Awakened and part of another album that I never finished" - wonder if those tapes are extant or were they erased

Would be nice if they could be added to the original LP if they do still exist

[jazzbo]

Same here - two different SACD players, but I have some SACD reissues that do not improve on a perfectly done red book CD remastering - the Hemphill, for one thing, sounds so good that there's hardly anything legt to be desired. I think SACD high resolution works best in the case of natural ambience recordings with minimal miking - Dogon A.D. seems to be a multi-track recording, where the difference is not that spectacular to a well done vinyl or CD reissue.

I say it again - there should be a subscription available to JLH's reissues!

I'll just beg to disagree then because in my system the best SACD bests the best CD. Masterings such as the JLH releases would sound improved on SACD by a noticeable margin. I don't expect SACD to happen from JLH or advocate it, but it would be amazing. I've gone the full blown audio crazy route with power conditioning and cabling etc. Perhaps that's the difference? But the medium reveals its glory in more than certain types of recordings.

Edited May 1, 2012 by jazzbo

[Clunky]

I say it again - there should be a subscription available to JLH's reissues!

I like that idea, but perhaps it doesn't fit with JLH preferred method of distribution.

[Stefan Wood]

Geez, let's not go all Steve Hoffmann in this thread.....

[J.A.W.]

Geez, let's not go all Steve Hoffmann in this thread.....

Hoffman was hired to do the mastering of a number of SACDs by Acoustic Sound's owner Chad Kassem, but I'm not sure if that makes him an SACD advocate - if that's what you mean. But you're right, let's focus on the music.

[jazzbo]

I personally don't see why we have to put any sort of limitation on discussions here, nor do I think it's inappropriate within a thread by a record producer who has a serious interest in quality both of material and recording and mastering.

But whatever.