JLH reissue plans

[Larry Kart]

No big deal, perhaps, but, a post up above referred to JLH's "hype." To me, and I know to some other copy editor types, "hype" is a disparaging term that implies one is exaggerating to serve one's interests. JLH hasn't done that IMO; rather he's saying exactly what he thinks; his enthusiasms are genuine.

[J.A.W.]

No big deal, perhaps, but, a post up above referred to JLH's "hype." To me, and I know to some other copy editor types, "hype" is a disparaging term that implies one is exaggerating to serve one's interests. JLH hasn't done that IMO; rather he's saying exactly what he thinks; his enthusiasms are genuine.

Agreed.

[David Ayers]

hype = "promote with extravagant or extensive publicity" OED

Not an evaluation of veracity, but of modality and extent.

[king ubu]

hype = "promote with extravagant or extensive publicity" OED

Which JLH doesn't do.

If you get this impression, it's the murmur of us normal people who do enjoy his reissues an awful lot and keep saying so.

[David Ayers]

Hm. JLH only - ever - posts about his own releases. That's fine, but it is what it is.

[Larry Kart]

Hm. JLH only - ever - posts about his own releases. That's fine, but it is what it is.

Yes, but what it is is not "hype." And if you're going to retreat to the "or extensive publicity" part of the dictionary definition of the word, I don't think it's been extensive here in the sense that JLH keeps harping on stuff annoyingly, like a carnival barker or pitchman. Rather, he's keeping us informed about the progress of matters that a good many of us seem to care about.

[JSngry]

I've grown accustomed to hype just meaning that you're proactively pimping you wares. Nothing wrong with it, although as in most post-verbal written cultures, inflections and contexts means everything.

So when a guy comes on and tells us what he's up to, and what he's decision-making about, and how he's agonizing over every business/musical decision, and finally giving birth to a World-Class Big Boy, he's just hyping his shit, as well he should be, because he's got an audience and he's keeping them involved to keep them involved.

Hell yeah it's hype, and hell no, it ain't a bad thing. It's just business, and if not business, then why bother having a product?

[clifford_thornton]

Also, JLH has a history in the music going back quite a few years.

[JSngry]

It's all "business theater", and it does seem natural, not contrived or put-on, but definitely theatrical, and not in a derogatory way.

It's a limited market, this stuff is. Reaching a market base is difficult enough, keeping it even more so.

So hey, hype away!

[JSngry]

Also, JLH has a history in the music going back quite a few years.

Along those same lines, Revelation is to be commended for their ongoing outlet-provisioning for Clare Fischer back in the day. The advocacy of Fischer going on here is not some new-found fanboy obsession, there's a long-standing and well-proven track record there with both JLH & JWH. Fischer is one of the less-pigeon-holeable figures this music has produced, so you know it took true belief to give him the outlets they did. There wasn't (and still isn't) a ready-made "Clare Fischer market", not as quirky and eclectic as that guy was.

[Larry Kart]

Another dictionary definition of "hype": "excessive or misleading publicity or advertising." Again, I don't think that JLH is delivering either of those, nor does Jim's "proactively pimping your wares" seem right to me. (My emphasis) I think Jim's later "advocacy" fills the bill.

[JSngry]

Yesterday's advocacy is today hyping/pimping/whatever. Same thing.

Dictionaries are for using the right word, not for saying the right thing. Words have definitions (objective), but they also have meanings (subjective).

Not my world, I'm just living in it, but it's all good, except when it's not, but here, I think it is.To look for the imposition of a formal meaning to an informal dialect(s) might be asking a bit too much of the room (which might be too hip for the act).

So pimp that advocacy with all the hype you got, brer!

Edited April 24, 2012 by JSngry

[Larry Kart]

Jim -- You've got a sister. Someone asks if you'd suggest that he ask her out on a date. You say, "Sure -- you're a nice guy, she's a nice girl: I think you'd like each other; have a good time." If I said that you had just advocated that the guy ask out your sister, that would be a fair description? If I said that you had just pimped your sister, would that be a fair description, too? I would think that in a fair number of informal dialects, saying that "You just pimped your sister" might get you in a good deal of trouble.

[JSngry]

My sister is not an independently produced & financed jazz reissue item being sold in the hopes of recouping expenses for the purpose of creating more independently produced jazz reissue items, etc.

She's a lot of things, but she's not that...

[JSngry]

Besides context/etc mattering, there's the matter of rhythm. Either "hype" or "pimp" are much more in likelihood going to flow better in today's "casual conversation" than "advocacy", although I do like how you can use advocate (the verb) and rhyme it with "conversate". "Advocacy" is like "avocado", whereas "hype" and/or "pimp" cut to the chase without having a bigass seed in the middle.

[Larry Kart]

Jim -- OK, I don't like "advocacy" either as part of ordinary speech. But "pimp" and "hype" are better off in any context I can think of if they still retain some sting instead of being more or less neutral. For one thing, if you do want your "pimp" or "hype" to have some sting to it, how then do you convey this? Through intonation and rhythm? If so, give me a hint of how that might sound. Or do you say, "You're a f------ pimp," or "That's f------ hype."

[JSngry]

An understanding of who you're talking to, what you're talking about, and how it all rolls and flows. Consensual conversation.

And also a sense of "if you're telling me that's not what I 'meant' to say, then you understood it, in which case I said what I needed to say, and if I said what I needed to say, then I said what I wanted to say, so...what's next on the itinerary?."

Words are toys. Jazz reissues are items for sale. And Clare Fischer be spanking them chord voicings bottom like he own dat chordass.

Because, of course, he did.

To get back on topic...

[JETman]

To me it still sounds like you need to find that key to get out of the men's room.

[JSngry]

I'll settle for that Joe Dailey set.

[Larry Kart]

Words are toys -- oh boy.

[JSngry]

So are chords.

Toys are bad?

[JSngry]

Let's get back on topic, at least here in this particular thread. This man, this JLH, is a living human with living product for sale and not too much room for error. The analisms/elasticisms of language are not nearly the point, and there is money at stake.

Bring on the Joe Dailey!!!

[Larry Kart]

Toys are fine, as are words, but though they can be played with, words aren't toys.

[JSngry]

Toys are fine, as are words, but though they can be played with, words aren't toys.

Speaking of dictionaries, how about that other great Clare Fischer album, Thesaurus!!!

[Larry Kart]

Toys are fine, as are words, but though they can be played with, words aren't toys.

Speaking of dictionaries, how about that other great Clare Fischer album, Thesaurus!!!

Aside from Warne's solos, I'm not a big fan of "Thesaurus," though it sounds much better in its later LP version (Discovery?) than it did on Atlantic. I much prefer "Extensions."