JLH reissue plans

[jonathanhorwich]

Again, thanks guys. I truly appreciate your ideas, inputs, etc. Very helpful. I don't have to do the box which adds 7gs to the cost!! And if I do the three CDs nicely as usual, I might get away with cheaper packaging. But I'd rather charge the $5.00 extra retail and come out with a killer box set which defines the thing for all time. I like doing things once and for all. I don't want to go broke (again) but I'd rather go broke (again) and know I did it right. And did it worthy of the work and time and sweat the musicians put into the music. I feel I did Dixon and Hemphill right and it was of a stature which approached the level of music they turned out. So this is what I wrestle with. I don't mean to spill my emotions or jazz mind set onto the collective table here but that's what keeps me from saving the money. John L makes an intelligent observation that this is not a series that people will be dying to hear the next section of. I think it is a one time shot. Having the package of material at once and hearing the studio sessions and then the live is really fascinating. And how the group falls together on the later gig at Newport and smokes it. Russell Thorne should be in bass heaven with a few others.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I guess I'll have to make the money somehow and fork it over. I imagine the initial costs will be a cool 25gs to put it out. Then I pray I get it back. If it sells 1000 I'll break even. If it sells 1500 I'll make a small profit for the next reissue.

[AfricaBrass]

I'm just going start saving my money, so I'll be ready to buy it in whichever format you choose. I can't wait!

[Adam]

Hi,

An opinion. I've never heard of Joe Daley before. And I'm not totally ignorant.

Would I sample one CD based on board recommendations? Sure. Would I buy a $50 box set of someone whom I'm never heard of? Not a chance.

I honestly would say that without a marketing campaign, you need to start with a single CD release. If that goes well, release an additional double, or two more singles.

I would buy almost any single release you put out, like I bought the Hemphill & Dixon.

[king ubu]

Not sure what your $$ are worth, but for 50$ I can just about have one meal at a mid-class restaurant, catch 2,5 movies, drink around 10 beers or 3 whiskeys at a bar... I'm more than willing to pay that amount (I'd also pay 60) for something that I assume is great... and I bet curiosity would get the better of me even if I hadn't heard the RCA album (I have, but not in adequate form) I'd jump for it!

But maybe that's just me...

Also, isn't this here supposed to be the marketing campaign?

[mjzee]

Not sure what your $$ are worth, but for 50$ I can just about have one meal at a mid-class restaurant, catch 2,5 movies, drink around 10 beers or 3 whiskeys at a bar... I'm more than willing to pay that amount (I'd also pay 60) for something that I assume is great... and I bet curiosity would get the better of me even if I hadn't heard the RCA album (I have, but not in adequate form) I'd jump for it!

That's not really the question. Assuming you had $50 to spend on music, would you spend it on Joe Daley or on a few of the hundreds of other titles on your never-ending want list?

[king ubu]

Not sure what your $$ are worth, but for 50$ I can just about have one meal at a mid-class restaurant, catch 2,5 movies, drink around 10 beers or 3 whiskeys at a bar... I'm more than willing to pay that amount (I'd also pay 60) for something that I assume is great... and I bet curiosity would get the better of me even if I hadn't heard the RCA album (I have, but not in adequate form) I'd jump for it!

That's not really the question. Assuming you had $50 to spend on music, would you spend it on Joe Daley or on a few of the hundreds of other titles on your never-ending want list?

Is it not? Now I'm not abstain from visiting my favorite movie theater (where I can get in much cheaper thanks to a yearly subscription), but I'm perfectly willing to now and then save on other things in order to buy more music.

But to answer your question: I guess what you're implying (that I'd rather buy then cheapo sets and hence get what... 120 discs for that amount) isn't entirely wrong. And it's indeed an issue... we've all been americanized and want everything we can get for as little as possible. Too bad, really. Quality product has it's price, and that's a fact. And yes, I'm willing to pay more for it every now and then. But the big question is: are there enough people willing and interested for Jonathan to break even... I don't have the answer, but I'm lamenting that whole wide-spread degenerate consumerist attitude, I really do (and I fall into that trap too often, myself, and sometimes enjoy great deals but other times hate myself for doing it and ending up with stuff I'd just not bought if it had cost doulbe the amount).

[clifford_thornton]

This thread is getting into hair-splitting territory. A 3CD set of the Joe Daley Trio may not sell out as quickly as the Hemphill, but it'll sell and I hope that Jonathan puts it out in the expanded format. In the meantime it looks like we have some excellent work from Clare Fischer and Jeremy Steig to keep us happy.

[mjzee]

Not sure what your $$ are worth, but for 50$ I can just about have one meal at a mid-class restaurant, catch 2,5 movies, drink around 10 beers or 3 whiskeys at a bar... I'm more than willing to pay that amount (I'd also pay 60) for something that I assume is great... and I bet curiosity would get the better of me even if I hadn't heard the RCA album (I have, but not in adequate form) I'd jump for it!

That's not really the question. Assuming you had $50 to spend on music, would you spend it on Joe Daley or on a few of the hundreds of other titles on your never-ending want list?

Is it not? Now I'm not abstain from visiting my favorite movie theater (where I can get in much cheaper thanks to a yearly subscription), but I'm perfectly willing to now and then save on other things in order to buy more music.

But to answer your question: I guess what you're implying (that I'd rather buy then cheapo sets and hence get what... 120 discs for that amount) isn't entirely wrong. And it's indeed an issue... we've all been americanized and want everything we can get for as little as possible. Too bad, really. Quality product has it's price, and that's a fact. And yes, I'm willing to pay more for it every now and then. But the big question is: are there enough people willing and interested for Jonathan to break even... I don't have the answer, but I'm lamenting that whole wide-spread degenerate consumerist attitude, I really do (and I fall into that trap too often, myself, and sometimes enjoy great deals but other times hate myself for doing it and ending up with stuff I'd just not bought if it had cost doulbe the amount).

Actually, that wasn't what I was implying at all. Assuming you don't have unlimited funds to spend on music (most people I know fit that category), you probably have a long list of discs you want to buy, and you purchase a few titles off that list as spare change is available. If I have $50, I'd need to choose between Joe Daley and, say, a Coleman Hawkins, John Scofield, Albert Ayler, (your choice here)... 3 or 4 of these legitimately released albums (not cheapo, degenerate consumerist attitude or whatever else you threw out there). I took a chance on the Bill Dixon and Julius Hemphill titles; for the record, I kinda liked the Hemphill but the Dixon hasn't moved me yet. Before I bought those, I sized them up against my want list. It'd be harder to justify a $50 - $60 box, at least for me.

YMMV. We're providing a range of reactions here (market research, shall we say?) for JLH's use. Let's hope he finds it helpful.

[JSngry]

Also, isn't this here supposed to be the marketing campaign?

This is the PRE-marketing marketing campaign. Those of us who have heard it are testifying to the worthiness of the project. Those who haven't heard it but are intrigued enough will buy in the first wave, then come back here and, hopefully, testify further, Then those on the fence will be convinced that, yeah, ok, hey, limited edition, great music, trusted recomendations, what the hell, and then they go ahead and join the second wave of purchses. Then they come back, etc. Lather, rince, repeat.

I'm a knowing and willing participant (and a wholly unsolicited one, fwiw) for this pre-marketing marketing campaign. becuase I know the music that was originally released, agree that it's most worthy of a broader/expanded hearing (for all the reasons already given), and have been noting less than most-impressed by JLHs attention to detail and quality in his projects to date.

Stuff like this, great music issued in a relatively small quantity, inevitably has a small window of opportunity for being readily available. I always have $50.00 worth of stuff I can wait on in order to get in through that window. Always!

[king ubu]

Me, too, Jim! No tongue-in-cheek there!

@mjzee: sorry for misunderstanding then. I can very well relate to what you said in the follow-up post to mine - been in such a situation for many years, too (well not one with lots of responsibility, family etc, but just having limited funds and having to take decisions upon what to buy and what not).

[Head Man]

This thread is getting into hair-splitting territory. A 3CD set of the Joe Daley Trio may not sell out as quickly as the Hemphill, but it'll sell and I hope that Jonathan puts it out in the expanded format. In the meantime it looks like we have some excellent work from Clare Fischer and Jeremy Steig to keep us happy.

Amen to that!

[AllenLowe]

don't forget the bonus DVD of Joe Daley home movies.

[AfricaBrass]

I've bought a lot of reissues that I hadn't heard yet because I either trusted recommendations from friends, there were musicians on the recording that I already knew and liked, or I trusted the label releasing the music. There are many classic Blue Note reissues I bought on faith and I buy every Nessa release I can because I trust both labels. Years ago, I bought the 3 cd Verve Elite Edition pressing of Lee Konitz' Motion for around $40. I had never heard the album and had no Konitz in my collection, but that cd became one of my favorites. I don't have a problem spending $50 on something that Jonathan releases. He has proven to me with his previous two releases that he is someone to trust and I know any product he puts out is going to be of the finest quality and will be great music.

[ejp626]

Well, in terms of gathering marketing info, I am firmly in the other camp. I am not interested in bulky box sets and don't appreciate the ones I do have since they make it hard to store on my shelves (irregular shapes and so forth). If it was the difference between a large box set and a slimline thing or even a double-CD case that would hold 3 or 4 CDs, I would go for the latter every time, esp. if it kept the prices down. My budget is far more constrained than I am used to, and there is no way I would take a flyer on a $50 set anyway.

However, in the larger scheme of things it doesn't matter as I am clearly not the target audience either (no longer any interest in free jazz at all).

[jonathanhorwich]

Well, hopefully, because of the standard of music, sound and packaging of the previous releases, one would opt to buy the box set based on that. You'd know the sound, the packaging and the music all would be of high quality. Well, I'm about to put out Clare Fischer's Extension and I doubt no more than a handful of people out there know Clare's work on this performance. But I believe it is brilliant and deserves to be heard and known. You who buy it will be taking a risk, but only a $20.00 risk. Still, the principle holds. I hope to keep a high standard of music so my customers know they can trust what I put out to be of high quality and even if not their favorite type of jazz, they know it is worth keeping and treasuring their purchase as I believe someday these reissues will be looked upon as valuable in their own right as the vinyl is to us today.

Anyway, that's my hope and vision for these reissues. You guys would know better than me how this sits with you the buyer.

[mjzee]

JLH: It's hard for me to believe you couldn't find 1,500 people in the world to buy the Joe Daley box, even at $60. 1,500 people doesn't sound like a large number; I think you'd probably do OK even if I'm not one of those 1,500. I hate to rain on a guy's parade, and I think enthusiasm is a great quality. So release away!

[jazzbo]

Looking forward to "Extensions." It's a great recording!

[CraigP]

I'm a sucker for a box set and I'm game for the Daley, even though I've never heard the album. So I hope it gets released in a 3 CD form. Previously I said I'd go for a set in the $45 - $50 range, but I could go up to $60. Hopefully, though, it could be done for around $50.

[JSngry]

Well, hopefully, because of the standard of music, sound and packaging of the previous releases, one would opt to buy the box set based on that. You'd know the sound, the packaging and the music all would be of high quality. Well, I'm about to put out Clare Fischer's Extension and I doubt no more than a handful of people out there know Clare's work on this performance. But I believe it is brilliant and deserves to be heard and known. You who buy it will be taking a risk, but only a $20.00 risk. Still, the principle holds. I hope to keep a high standard of music so my customers know they can trust what I put out to be of high quality and even if not their favorite type of jazz, they know it is worth keeping and treasuring their purchase as I believe someday these reissues will be looked upon as valuable in their own right as the vinyl is to us today.

Anyway, that's my hope and vision for these reissues. You guys would know better than me how this sits with you the buyer.

I'm listening to the Amazon MP3 version of Extension right now & it's exceeding expectations...who's the tenor player on Ornithardy?

[mjzee]

Me, too, Jim! No tongue-in-cheek there!

@mjzee: sorry for misunderstanding then. I can very well relate to what you said in the follow-up post to mine - been in such a situation for many years, too (well not one with lots of responsibility, family etc, but just having limited funds and having to take decisions upon what to buy and what not).

No offense taken, Ubu - we're cool.

[jonathanhorwich]

The tenor player on Extension, Ornithardy is Jerry Coker who Clare mentions in the notes he wrote for this reissue. I hope to have this out very soon.

[Clunky]

The tenor player on Extension, Ornithardy is Jerry Coker who Clare mentions in the notes he wrote for this reissue. I hope to have this out very soon.

I purchased Extension on vinyl quite recently. its' not been with me long but I keep returning to it. Lots of details in the arrangements which are nuanced and still swing. Is this reissue a straight one or are there bonus tracks etc.?

[JSngry]

Jerry coker, eh? The exercise book guy. I knew he had a career as a player before getting into education but had never heard his playing. Pretty cool, he's got the Warne thing going on...who knew?

[jonathanhorwich]

Thanks guys. On the box set I'll probably do it. The hell with it. For those who don't buy it, so be it. How they can resist I don't know. The Clare Fischer reissue is the same performances as the vinyl. There are no bonus tracks as there was only one more alternative cut of one of the tunes and Clare said not to issue it as the vinyl performances are perfect as is. So no bonus. Who needs it as this work is in and of itself. Coker plays beautifully and in the mode that fits the entire production. Unfortunately no one ever had a Warne thing going. No one can play like Warne and no one probably ever will. Warne was a genius whose ideas flowed out of his fingers in ways no one has ever approached stylistically or perhaps even intellectually. He was from another planet.

[JSngry]

Yeah, I know about Warne, trust me.

I didn't mean that Coker WAS Warne, just that his playing showed the influence.