Miles "In A Silent Way" Box

[mikeweil]

Believe it or not, that's the way I felt after I had listened to the unedited takes. I felt cheated. Of course I didn't know anything about editing at the time In a Silent Way or Bitches Brew was first released, but I thought and still do think that jazz records should capture the music the way it was played live on stage or in the studio. If you conceive an album to be overdubbed that's another matter, but to edit meandering improvisations to make it sound more perfect than it really was, that's cheating to me, at least to some degree. You gotta live with your imperfections and mistakes as a jazz musician.

I love alternates for the same reason - they taught me that the greatest players aren't always perfect, and that was very helpful.

Just my personal point of view, of course. Best example is James Brown's Apollo date - I knew it inside out, but some transitions sounded strange. When they released the unedited performance, I found out I was right - edits all over the place.

Teo Macero was a composer, and composers tend to work stuff over until it's perfect. Now he did an excellent job, but introduced a parameter that doesn't belong in improvised music, IMHO. Mingus did the same (there's a one bar saxophone phrase edited from single notes on Pre-Bird), but he too was a composer with that particular attitude.

I think Macero was exaggerating his editing . consider the many solos he edited out completely or in part on Monk's or Miles' live recordings, like some Mobley solos that were beautiful once heard in complete form. Time limitations played their part, too, but still - I prefer it unedited.

Edited August 20, 2011 by mikeweil

[Teasing the Korean]

That's an interesting take, but I personally disagree. I don't think a record has to be a complete performance, regardless of the genre. To me, the final result is what matters, not the process.

[danasgoodstuff]

Slightly off-topic, but is that the case with all of the Miles "single-lp" box sets (on the corner, jack johnson come to mind)? The full original record is on the last CD?

The Jack Johnson box of the raw takes of "Go Ahead John" but not the originally issued edit, to get that you need some version of Big Fun - my recomendation would be the dbl CD of Big Fun with bonus tracks plus the dbl CD of Bitches with bonus tracks, skip the Bitches box but get the boxes for IASW & Jack Johnson and all the rest.

Sometimes Teo hit a homer (IASW) and sometimes he struck out (Live/Evil), IMHO. I try not to have any preconceptions 'bout how it should be done, just listen to how it works...

[Shawn]

This set and the Blackhawk sets are the two Miles boxes that I revisit the most often.

I'm one of those people that actually prefers In A Silent Way to Bitches Brew.

[7/4]

This set and the Blackhawk sets are the two Miles boxes that I revisit the most often.

I'm one of those people that actually prefers In A Silent Way to Bitches Brew.

Me too.

[Chuck Nessa]

me 3

[Teasing the Korean]

Yes. As I wrote earlier, In a Silent Way is the album Bitches Brew gets the credit for being.

[A Lark Ascending]

For a long time In a Silent Way appealed to me far more than Bitches Brew. The rock/funk element is very understated and there's an open spaceiness (!) there that appeals to someone who was coming to jazz via ECM (as one route). I love the way it shimmers.

Over time, however, I've come round to Bitches Brew and couldn't choose between them now.

I do think from BB onwards the funk side was increasingly played up and that was what what was mainly picked up on by jazz-rock/fusion musicians. The possibilities of the cooler IASW approach have been less explored (though bands like Eberhard Weber's 'Colours' on ECM always strike me as owing a lot to that record). Interesting that some of the re-explorations of electric jazz in recent years have stepped back to IASW. Dave Douglas' marvellous 'The Infinite' always sounds to me as if it is referencing that world.

Edited August 21, 2011 by A Lark Ascending

[Teasing the Korean]

Listening to the "In a Silent Way" box set recently, I wondered about the following: If Teo had edited the sessions into a double LP, and it was released as such with trippy cover art like Bitches Brew, do you think "In a Silent Way" would have made the mark that Bitches Brew made?

[felser]

Listening to the "In a Silent Way" box set recently, I wondered about the following: If Teo had edited the sessions into a double LP, and it was released as such with trippy cover art like Bitches Brew, do you think "In a Silent Way" would have made the mark that Bitches Brew made?

I don't think so - the music isn't as "In your face" as BB, so would not have translated out of bounds like BB did. But I'm another one who prefers it to BB. That being said, it would have gone further than it did just because in the days of limited spending money, the Columbia 2LP sets for the price of one +$1 were always prime purchase considerations.

Edited January 18, 2014 by felser

[Leeway]

Maybe. I was a teenager when BB was released, and me any my pals were rather agog at the album title, the wild art, and Miles reputation as a bad-ass. So I and others went out and bought that double LP (which I still have). In comparison, I don't think we even heard about IASW until years later. Or if we did, it made no impression. But then, once the album got out there, it had to survive and thrive on its own merits. My guess is that BB would still dominate the Miles landscape over IASW.

[danasgoodstuff]

Listening to the "In a Silent Way" box set recently, I wondered about the following: If Teo had edited the sessions into a double LP, and it was released as such with trippy cover art like Bitches Brew, do you think "In a Silent Way" would have made the mark that Bitches Brew made?

So, what were you thinking about as the 3rd & 4th sides - maybe Circle in the Round and Dual Mr Tillman Anthony?

Or that cut with Joe Chambers?

Edited January 18, 2014 by danasgoodstuff

[JSngry]

Or even "It's About That Time"...until the box came out, I would never have imagined that that thing had such a structure to it, never mind an actual head...pretty radical revelation, imo.

[Guy Berger]

Or even "It's About That Time"...until the box came out, I would never have imagined that that thing had such a structure to it, never mind an actual head...pretty radical revelation, imo.

Interesting to imagine what would have happened if Miles had gone with this complex composition route in his electric period rather than the long, minimalist vamps.

[JSngry]

Or even "It's About That Time"...until the box came out, I would never have imagined that that thing had such a structure to it, never mind an actual head...pretty radical revelation, imo.

Interesting to imagine what would have happened if Miles had gone with this complex composition route in his electric period rather than the long, minimalist vamps.

I know what you mean, but I don't think it's as simple as that...check this out: http://www.plosin.com/MilesAhead/CodeMD.html

I sorta scoffed when I first read this information (in a bootleg's liner notes, actually, albeit without the larger overview provided here...but with specific references to the music on the recording itself), sounded like retro-fitting to me, but have come around with the hearing of more and more bootlegs. The markers are definitely there, and the effect is one or composition, rather large-scale, actually...not unlike how sonny would play these longass sets that would ramble from one tune into another but ultimately make set into a suite. In Miles' case, it was the other way around, he'd make a suite into a set.

[Guy Berger]

Or even "It's About That Time"...until the box came out, I would never have imagined that that thing had such a structure to it, never mind an actual head...pretty radical revelation, imo.

Interesting to imagine what would have happened if Miles had gone with this complex composition route in his electric period rather than the long, minimalist vamps.

I know what you mean, but I don't think it's as simple as that...check this out: http://www.plosin.com/MilesAhead/CodeMD.html

I sorta scoffed when I first read this information (in a bootleg's liner notes, actually, albeit without the larger overview provided here...but with specific references to the music on the recording itself), sounded like retro-fitting to me, but have come around with the hearing of more and more bootlegs. The markers are definitely there, and the effect is one or composition, rather large-scale, actually...not unlike how sonny would play these longass sets that would ramble from one tune into another but ultimately make set into a suite. In Miles' case, it was the other way around, he'd make a suite into a set.

Was not contesting that... but for a little bit in late 1968 and early 1969, there was complexity introduced WITHIN compositions that Miles recorded. I also didn't mean "long, minimalist vamps" in a negative way - I like Miles's 1970-75 music a lot.

[bertrand]

This suite aspect has long intrigued me. One point that Merlin does not address is how Wayne Shorter took this idea and expanded upon it in his later work. One example is Weather Report's Live In Tokyo. Sides 1, 3 and 4 consist of several tunes strung together, and it's not always clear where one ends and the other begins, especially on the first side. The second side claims to include 'Lost' and 'Early Minor' although I don't hear them. Someone in the business claimed they did this to get more royalties, but that does not really make sense. Why not list 10 more tunes that are not really there to get even more royalties?

Then there's the current quartet. In the first few years, they would play recognizable pieces but Usually strung together, although not always. Now there are long blocks that don't always contain specific identifiable pieces, although they usually do a few of those at the end. The various mystery blocks do contain bits and pieces that come from new songs, but each night these bits and pieces are assembled in a different way. If one were to listen to say, a whole tour of shows one after the other (and these are being recorded for him), one would recognize elements from one set to the next, but not in the same place and not at the same time. It's like he's trying to prove his statement that a composition is never finished. Some concerts, he does not do this and there is a clearer break from one song to the next. This was the case in Paris at the Salle Pleyel in November 2012. Of course, I still did not know most of the songs!

Bertrand.

[Guy Berger]

This suite aspect has long intrigued me. One point that Merlin does not address is how Wayne Shorter took this idea and expanded upon it in his later work. One example is Weather Report's Live In Tokyo. Sides 1, 3 and 4 consist of several tunes strung together, and it's not always clear where one ends and the other begins, especially on the first side. The second side claims to include 'Lost' and 'Early Minor' although I don't hear them. Someone in the business claimed they did this to get more royalties, but that does not really make sense. Why not list 10 more tunes that are not really there to get even more royalties?

Not answering your question, Bertrand, but I don't think Early Minor is in there, unless there are two different compositions with that name. They DID play the tune commonly associated with that title at other gigs around that time.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Guy

[bertrand]

I agree that it's not there, nor is 'Lost'. I just don't buy the story that they listed it in the medley to get extra royalties.

Bertrand.