Bach Recommendations

[king ubu]

Thanks, will keep my eyes open then!

[alppila]

+1 for Café Zimmermann. Also look out for anything Herreweghe or

Junghänel on Harmonia Mundi.

Picked up this last week and it's wonderful:

http://www.cantuscoe...moll-messe.html

Edited February 14, 2013 by alppila

[alppila]

Yvonne Loriod

[MomsMobley]

Some favorites, after half a year or so of intense listening to classical music (which Bach ain't, I know) - listed in no particular order:

Violin Sonatas & Partitas:

- Szigeti

- Szeryng (1967, don't know the earlier recording yet, it's a bit too expensive)

- Grumiaux

- Zehetmair

Cello Suites:

- Casals (EMI, late 30s)

- Schiefen

- Gaillard

(I guess Fournier will make that list, too, but not that familiar yet.)

Sonatas for violin and harpsichord:

- Grumiaux/Jaccottet

- Laredo/Gould

Sonatas for viola da gamba and harpsichord:

- Rose/Gould (hellyeah!)

Goldberg Variations:

- Gould (both Columbias)

- Tureck (EMI 1957)

(now don't yell at me, the Rousset, Hantaï and Rannou are here, found the latter a bit weird, haven't played the other two yet)

The Well-Tempered Clavier:

- Gulda

- Edwin Fischer

(I've got Hanaï's first book around ... and enjoyed what I've heard from Gould, too, but not familiar enough to decide yet .. got to get more harpsichord here ... and maybe Tureck, too)

Brandenburg Concertos & Orchestral Suites:

- Menuhin (Bath, EMI)

(clearly room for more here!)

Piano Concertos:

- Gould

- Edwin Fischer

Violin Concertos:

- Menuhin

- Ferras

(I guess I prefer the Bath Menuhins over the Enescu ones ... and for BWV 1043 I might prefer Ferras/Schwalbé over Menuhin/Ferras, not quite sure)

Edwin Fischer is GREAT at Mozart, horrible in Bach, both stylistically and technically inapt... Casals does not stand up in any way except as part of the discography, not quite as odious as fucking Heifetz from the another thread (Heifetz = marketing & to buy that box instead of, say, 30-40 Naxos CDs of diverse repertoire ludicrous or just brand loyalty). Spare me Artie Grumiaux's 'lustrous tonal elegance' & that tinkly dink distant clavecin also, please.

Performance practice has come a long way from St. Louis & both more 'authentic' AND jazzier than it's been for 300+ years, time to shuck these received hosannas for schlubs too arrogant to know from Dolmetsch or Duke.

Helene Schmitt

Carmignoloa + Marcon

Edited January 27, 2015 by MomsMobley

[paul secor]

Any thoughts on Jeanne Lamon and Tafelmusik?

Any further recs for St. Matthew?

[Larry Kart]

St. Matthew? They're old, but Fritz Lehmann and Klemperer. Be curious who Moms likes.

Do like Carmignola and Marcon in the Violin-Harpsichord Sonatas.

[MomsMobley]

Any thoughts on Jeanne Lamon and Tafelmusik?

Any further recs for St. Matthew?

Best 'deal' in St Matthew is Hermann Max on Capriccio; on two CDs also--

http://www.amazon.com/St-Matthews-Passion-Hermann-Max/dp/B000001WW0

Best overall is, predictably, Rene Jacobs--

http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Matthäus-Passion-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B00E8KC5HY

Harononcourt I, for all its moments of creakiness, still stands up as a great performance. NONE of the old-style recordings, from Mengelberg on down are tolerable at this point save history of performance practice. (Klemperer, hah!!) Richter cantatas etc same thing. Harnoncourt II is pretty good, more secure but less characterful than I; both Herreweghe's are good tho' I prefer more drama; the Bruggen was unfortnately a flop after strong Mass and St John's; Suzuki is slick, not offensive but kinda faceless... Herrweghe a better 'neutral' choice. Forget Leonhardt (stolid), forget Gardiner I (faster, dull), I haven't heard II. McCreesh could/should have been better, I approve of one-to-a-part, not always but it's worth hearing, John Butt Dunedin Consort gets close--

http://www.amazon.com/Matthew-Passion-Bachs-Performing-Version/dp/B001355OUW

re: Lamon, like Bruno Weil when they were both on Sony... I've not followed lately but I thought her recordings good-not-great, decent sounds but shades underpowered, I'd go Cafe Zimmermann or Akademie Alte Musik every time.

[Larry Kart]

[soulpope]

Some favorites, after half a year or so of intense listening to classical music (which Bach ain't, I know) - listed in no particular order:

Violin Sonatas & Partitas:

- Szigeti

- Szeryng (1967, don't know the earlier recording yet, it's a bit too expensive)

- Grumiaux

- Zehetmair

Cello Suites:

- Casals (EMI, late 30s)

- Schiefen

- Gaillard

(I guess Fournier will make that list, too, but not that familiar yet.)

Sonatas for violin and harpsichord:

- Grumiaux/Jaccottet

- Laredo/Gould

Sonatas for viola da gamba and harpsichord:

- Rose/Gould (hellyeah!)

Goldberg Variations:

- Gould (both Columbias)

- Tureck (EMI 1957)

(now don't yell at me, the Rousset, Hantaï and Rannou are here, found the latter a bit weird, haven't played the other two yet)

The Well-Tempered Clavier:

- Gulda

- Edwin Fischer

(I've got Hanaï's first book around ... and enjoyed what I've heard from Gould, too, but not familiar enough to decide yet .. got to get more harpsichord here ... and maybe Tureck, too)

Brandenburg Concertos & Orchestral Suites:

- Menuhin (Bath, EMI)

(clearly room for more here!)

Piano Concertos:

- Gould

- Edwin Fischer

Violin Concertos:

- Menuhin

- Ferras

(I guess I prefer the Bath Menuhins over the Enescu ones ... and for BWV 1043 I might prefer Ferras/Schwalbé over Menuhin/Ferras, not quite sure)

Edwin Fischer is GREAT at Mozart, horrible in Bach, both stylistically and technically inapt... Casals does not stand up in any way except as part of the discography, not quite as odious as fucking .......

quite in the contrary I believe that Casal`s interpretation from the 30`s is one of the benchmark recordings of the Bach Cello Suites beneath Janos Starker, Heinrich Schiff.....and later Ophelia Gaillard and Peter Wispelwey.....

[king ubu]

Some favorites, after half a year or so of intense listening to classical music (which Bach ain't, I know) - listed in no particular order:

Violin Sonatas & Partitas:

- Szigeti

- Szeryng (1967, don't know the earlier recording yet, it's a bit too expensive)

- Grumiaux

- Zehetmair

Cello Suites:

- Casals (EMI, late 30s)

- Schiefen

- Gaillard

(I guess Fournier will make that list, too, but not that familiar yet.)

Sonatas for violin and harpsichord:

- Grumiaux/Jaccottet

- Laredo/Gould

Sonatas for viola da gamba and harpsichord:

- Rose/Gould (hellyeah!)

Goldberg Variations:

- Gould (both Columbias)

- Tureck (EMI 1957)

(now don't yell at me, the Rousset, Hantaï and Rannou are here, found the latter a bit weird, haven't played the other two yet)

The Well-Tempered Clavier:

- Gulda

- Edwin Fischer

(I've got Hanaï's first book around ... and enjoyed what I've heard from Gould, too, but not familiar enough to decide yet .. got to get more harpsichord here ... and maybe Tureck, too)

Brandenburg Concertos & Orchestral Suites:

- Menuhin (Bath, EMI)

(clearly room for more here!)

Piano Concertos:

- Gould

- Edwin Fischer

Violin Concertos:

- Menuhin

- Ferras

(I guess I prefer the Bath Menuhins over the Enescu ones ... and for BWV 1043 I might prefer Ferras/Schwalbé over Menuhin/Ferras, not quite sure)

Edwin Fischer is GREAT at Mozart, horrible in Bach, both stylistically and technically inapt... Casals does not stand up in any way except as part of the discography, not quite as odious as fucking Heifetz from the another thread (Heifetz = marketing & to buy that box instead of, say, 30-40 Naxos CDs of diverse repertoire ludicrous or just brand loyalty). Spare me Artie Grumiaux's 'lustrous tonal elegance' & that tinkly dink distant clavecin also, please.

Performance practice has come a long way from St. Louis & both more 'authentic' AND jazzier than it's been for 300+ years, time to shuck these received hosannas for schlubs too arrogant to know from Dolmetsch or Duke.

Helene Schmitt

Carmignoloa + Marcon

somewhat mean to take (and destroy) that newbie post of mine from back when ... will reply at more length later on.

the one part that makes me scratch my head is, under Brandenburg Concertos/Orchstral suites: "(clearly room for more here!)" - you think those needn't be bothered with at all?

[soulpope]

Some favorites, after half a year or so of intense listening to classical music (which Bach ain't, I know) - listed in no particular order:

Violin Sonatas & Partitas:

- Szigeti

- Szeryng (1967, don't know the earlier recording yet, it's a bit too expensive)

- Grumiaux

- Zehetmair

Cello Suites:

- Casals (EMI, late 30s)

- Schiefen

- Gaillard

(I guess Fournier will make that list, too, but not that familiar yet.)

Sonatas for violin and harpsichord:

- Grumiaux/Jaccottet

- Laredo/Gould

Sonatas for viola da gamba and harpsichord:

- Rose/Gould (hellyeah!)

Goldberg Variations:

- Gould (both Columbias)

- Tureck (EMI 1957)

(now don't yell at me, the Rousset, Hantaï and Rannou are here, found the latter a bit weird, haven't played the other two yet)

The Well-Tempered Clavier:

- Gulda

- Edwin Fischer

(I've got Hanaï's first book around ... and enjoyed what I've heard from Gould, too, but not familiar enough to decide yet .. got to get more harpsichord here ... and maybe Tureck, too)

Brandenburg Concertos & Orchestral Suites:

- Menuhin (Bath, EMI)

(clearly room for more here!)

Piano Concertos:

- Gould

- Edwin Fischer

Violin Concertos:

- Menuhin

- Ferras

(I guess I prefer the Bath Menuhins over the Enescu ones ... and for BWV 1043 I might prefer Ferras/Schwalbé over Menuhin/Ferras, not quite sure)

Edwin Fischer is GREAT at Mozart, horrible in Bach, both stylistically and technically inapt... Casals does not stand up in any way except as part of the discography, not quite as odious as fucking Heifetz from the another thread (Heifetz = marketing & to buy that box instead of, say, 30-40 Naxos CDs of diverse repertoire ludicrous or just brand loyalty). Spare me Artie Grumiaux's 'lustrous tonal elegance' & that tinkly dink distant clavecin also, please.

Performance practice has come a long way from St. Louis & both more 'authentic' AND jazzier than it's been for 300+ years, time to shuck these received hosannas for schlubs too arrogant to know from Dolmetsch or Duke.

Helene Schmitt

Carmignoloa + Marcon

somewhat mean to take (and destroy) that newbie post of mine from back when ... will reply at more length later on.

the one part that makes me scratch my head is, under Brandenburg Concertos/Orchstral suites: "(clearly room for more here!)" - you think those needn't be bothered with at all?

i believe the post you are referring to as a whole makes one "scratching his head".....IMO.....

[MomsMobley]

Ubu, no meanness intended, I assure you! Just saw it & thought it needed corrective because in some ways it represents bad period of corporate classical hegemony/marketing that we are now thankfully past. Some of that stuff sure, if you can get it free from library... tough to love unless you want to be historical character yourself, i.e. if i lived 1940-50-60-70 not now.

And no, I'm hep with Brandenburgs: MAK, Akademie Alte Music, Cafe Zimmermann, the band Siegbert Rampe led on Virgin, even Philip Pickett is pretty interesting with some numerological interpreations.

And Pontiff, while Casals does rate higher than Heifetz, his interest is now almost entirely historical/personal. Sure, maybe one needed a popular example but otherwise, its myriad infelicities-- and to the extent some would-be acolytes have aped them-- do not compel.

Fournier is pretty good, coin toss to bin or caress, Tortelier I like more.

I only kept Szigeti for his best moments btw, which the later Vanguard set does not, alas, present. Wonderful musician however.

I forgot Music Alta Ripa, who are excellent-- seek them out on the MDG label in all repertoire you are interested in.

yours in good sounds,

Moms

Edited January 28, 2015 by MomsMobley

[king ubu]

Hey Moms, sorry, no time and energy for a reply last night, and now I'm back in the mill again and don't have my stuff with me ... anyways, I know you weren't posting in bad spirits, of course (do I sense some fatherly silly me, motherly of course! concern? ) - and yeah, point is, I am very much interested in tracing how performances evolved over time, so I have the big Heifetz box and love much of the music it contains, regardless of its datedness (and yeah, of course I'd wish for more fringe repertoire, too, but if you look closer, there is some of that included as well) or "validity" as of today.

However, I have indeed explored plenty of more recent Bach performances in the meantime, i.e. Hélène Schmitt and Isabelle Faust's great takes on the solo violin works. Queyras' cello suites are on the pile but as of yet unheard (in things old, the Mercury ones by Starker just arrived as well).

Regarding orchestral pieces, indeed I've bought the Café Zimmermann box quite a while ago (but never reported that in this very thread, I assume, must have mentioned listening to it several times in the listening-thread though). And I don't think I've heard performances of these works that I enjoyed more.

But allow one question re: Szigeti - what Bach recordings do you actually enjoy of his? I've got the Vanguard 2CD set and love it, if there's better, I guess I need it! (What I love most of his though, is probalby the stuff with Bartók, followed by the Beethoven sonatas cycle w/Arrau and the Mozart sonatas with Horszowksi - again I gather the approach taken there might no longer make much sense here - and re: Mozart I have the Podger/Cooper set on the way right now - but I just love those recordings for what they are ... same goes for Gould/Rose, can't help loving those!)

Edited January 29, 2015 by king ubu

[bogdan101]

If I may jump in re: Szigeti, there is a Biddulph issue titled " Szigeti Plays Bach, Brahms and Bartok" which unfortunately is not cheap these days:

http://www.amazon.de/Szigeti-spielt-Bach-Bartok-Brahms/dp/B00000K2NP/

I haven't heard anyone come close to that, and the Brahms with Egon Petri is a stunner as well.

I'm a recent Tatyana Nikolayeva convert, especially after getting a hard to find box on the Russian label Venezia from HMV Japan, it has WTC, Goldberg and Inventions that are quite compelling. One thing that stands out for me is she seems to always find the perfect tempo for anything that she is playing.

Also investigating Yudina right now, but she seems too heavy handed from what I heard so far.

[mikeweil]

[soulpope]

If I may jump in re: Szigeti, there is a Biddulph issue titled " Szigeti Plays Bach, Brahms and Bartok" which unfortunately is not cheap these days:

http://www.amazon.de/Szigeti-spielt-Bach-Bartok-Brahms/dp/B00000K2NP/

I haven't heard anyone come close to that, and the Brahms with Egon Petri is a stunner as well.

[bogdan101]

If I may jump in re: Szigeti, there is a Biddulph issue titled " Szigeti Plays Bach, Brahms and Bartok" which unfortunately is not cheap these days:

http://www.amazon.de/Szigeti-spielt-Bach-Bartok-Brahms/dp/B00000K2NP/

I haven't heard anyone come close to that, and the Brahms with Egon Petri is a stunner as well.

That's the one.

[Д.Д.]

Let me also endorse Helene Schmitt's solo violin recordings on Alpha - they are outstanding. I often return to them.

[Д.Д.]

Any comments re this organ works set?

[king ubu]

re: the Biddulph Szigeti disc, I have the Brahms and the Bartók (and their great "Kreutzer" sonata as well), but not the Bach, aaargh!

[Quasimado]

Any recommendations for "The Art of Fugue"?

In memory I recall a haunting reading of Helmut Winschermann's orchestration by Karl Ristenpart and the Chamber Orchestra of the Sarre on the Erato label ... but that has long gone ...

Q

[mikeweil]

If you want a recording on harpsichord - that's the instrument it probably was intended for - the best, IMO are Davitt Moroney, Christian Rieger, and Sébastien Guillot:

There are other issues of the Moroney with different cover art - its a double CD. All three make it sound like passionate music, not just the high art of counterpoint.

Ensemble? Musica Antiqua Köln, who also made a DVD shortly before they split up. But the harpsichord duets are a bit shakily played on the DVD version.

[mikeweil]

Jordi Savall made his version using an ancient sounding mixed consort, relating to the counterpoint in the canzoni of Frescobaldi and the like.

[soulpope]

If you want a recording on harpsichord - that's the instrument it probably was intended for - Sébastien Guillot:

excellent recording

[Quasimado]

Many thanks. I'm interested in orchestral and harpsichord ... the Winschermann was both. It had a nice flow, as I recall. I have heard some versions that are pretty dry. I'll have to check these out.

Q