Power Conditioner

[Scott Dolan]

Throw it in the freezer for a week and charge him cryo pricing!

[Stefan Wood]

And I know what you mean Scott, with regards to delivering the same power. I'm not arguing that. I am arguing that there is a difference when the music is played. It's not imagined.

That was an interesting sequence.

"It's the same, but…different!"

No, that is not what I am saying. It doesn't make my stereo warmer or clearer; it has a stronger audible presence. At the same volume level the music comes out stronger than before.

Keep your snarkiness to PMs. It suits you better.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Stefan Wood

[Scott Dolan]

Dude, I honestly don't mean to be snarky. But you have to step back and read what you're telling me.

If I came here and told you that I put hospital/industrial grade outlets in my home and proceeded to tell you that my table lamp just shines stronger than it did before illuminating my living room in ways it never had before, or that my microwave cooked food in a more thorough and even manner making the flavors pop(!), or that my refrigerator was just more evenly balanced keeping my food a little fresher, you'd think I was hiding out in the closet with my favorite tube of modeling glue a little too long.

Brother, an AC power supply has a built in voltage regulator. It will only throughput enough power to satisfy its load. And in many cases, it's actually less than the 120 volts it's receiving from the wall outlet. Any more than that, and poof. So no, the outlet is not changing anything other than the force you'll need to plug and unplug a device from it.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Scott Dolan

[Daniel A]

I recall similar discussions on these forums in the past. And from what I can recall Kevin made an even better case that time!

Anyway, the power has travelled miles and miles through unknown cables, splits and converters before it reaches your house. Once inside, even then it has to run through cables within the walls that may not be in the best shape (I know, after having changed the complete electrical system in our house).

To convince me that a new power cord for the amplifier or a different power outlet would make a discernible difference to the sound reproduction someone would have to show me the results from an organized (preferrably double-blind) listening test.

I don't deny anyone the pleasure of using reliable, high quality equipment. Also, I'll admit that not every item I spend money on equipment-wise will give me better sound. But claims regarding the effects on the sound would be very hard to verify, I'd think.

[Scott Dolan]

The power cord thing is ridiculous. Right up there with cable elevators.

But, their worst aspect being the absurd prices. A $20 power outlet is one thing (and not really that outrageous). But a $200 power cord takes thievery into a whole new frontier.

[sidewinder]

Snake oil it may be - but I put Naim Powerline power cords on both the pre-amp power supply and power amp some years ago and there was a very definite and noticeable improvement. Porcy mentioned a 'more open' in one of his posts and that pretty well sums up what this change brought, along with a faster responsiveness to transient surges.

The next logical stage would be to put a separate earth spur in the house for the audio. I have resisted that option so far, although I would anticipate significant reductions in the noise floor as a result. Admittedly though, the effect of the milking machine down the road at certain times of day might mess that plan up.

Edited April 20, 2015 by sidewinder

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I don't deny anyone the pleasure of using reliable, high quality equipment. Also, I'll admit that not every item I spend money on equipment-wise will give me better sound. But claims regarding the effects on the sound would be very hard to verify, I'd think.

I'm with you on this. Like you, I buy upgraded cables and speaker wires. I am sure a lot of us here on organissimo do. However, for these cables and wires, I lean very heavily on the "reliable" aspect of this purchase. I want a well-made cable/wire that will do what I need it to do without fail for a long time. That's my only real qualification for wires. If they look good while doing it... bonus!

BTW, I am not a big advocate of "Home Depot lamp cord" speaker wire because I've done that and found green wires 10 years later. To me, that's not doing what I want it to do for a long time. FWIW, I also have a very old pair of Monster Cable speaker wires that have a greenish tint to them, so it's not all about money either.

[Scott Dolan]

Snake oil it may be - but I put Naim Powerline power cords on both the pre-amp power supply and power amp some years ago and there was a very definite and noticeable improvement. Porcy mentioned a 'more open' in one of his posts and that pretty well sums up what this change brought, along with a faster responsiveness to transient surges.

The next logical stage would be to put a separate earth spur in the house for the audio. I have resisted that option so far, although I would anticipate significant reductions in the noise floor as a result. Admittedly though, the effect of the milking machine down the road at certain times of day might mess that plan up.

What gauge was your previous power cable?

Kevin, the lamp cord would likely be ok if properly terminated. But, I have also experience the same thing. Mine were damn near black!

Edited April 20, 2015 by Scott Dolan

[Stefan Wood]

Dude, I honestly don't mean to be snarky. But you have to step back and read what you're telling me.

If I came here and told you that I put hospital/industrial grade outlets in my home and proceeded to tell you that my table lamp just shines stronger than it did before illuminating my living room in ways it never had before, or that my microwave cooked food in a more thorough and even manner making the flavors pop(!), or that my refrigerator was just more evenly balanced keeping my food a little fresher, you'd think I was hiding out in the closet with my favorite tube of modeling glue a little too long.

Brother, an AC power supply has a built in voltage regulator. It will only throughput enough power to satisfy its load. And in many cases, it's actually less than the 120 volts it's receiving from the wall outlet. Any more than that, and poof. So no, the outlet is not changing anything other than the force you'll need to plug and unplug a device from it.

I have Scott -- communicating through forums can be challenging, especially when talking abstract, like I tend to do. I actually wouldn't think you were sniffing glue if you told me those things. I'm not at all saying the Hubbell is a magic audiophile component. I'm just saying it seems to do something better. Like locking in on a radio signal, instead of slightly on the side where the signal is good but slightly muddy. Quicker, if that makes any sense. More efficient? Less magnetic interference? I can't properly define it, but I can hear the difference.

[Scott Dolan]

But an outlet, just by itself, can't do any of those things. It's like saying if I put gold terminals on my car battery, it'll start faster. It won't. It's simply a way to get 12 volts to my starter.

There are no components in a power outlet that do anything beyond connect.

A power conditioner could do something similar to what you're saying, if you have excessively "dirty" power. Outlets cannot. To do any of that you need components that can regulate/amplify/limit/etc.

[Stefan Wood]

Maybe we should look into what goes into the construction of an outlet to resolve this disagreement. Because it connects BETTER than a cheaper outlet.

[Stefan Wood]

Not true. It's the one snake oil thing I buy into, because I have heard a difference. Significant.

[Scott Dolan]

Maybe we should look into what goes into the construction of an outlet to resolve this disagreement. Because it connects BETTER than a cheaper outlet.

It does connect better, it has tighter clearances. Thing is, I could take the bare wires from the romex in your wall and gator clamp it to the prongs on your plug, and you'd still be getting full power. As long as metal is touching metal, you're golden.

As for their construction, they're really very simple. Plastic body with solid contacts usually made out of either nickel or brass. So it's basically a solid connection between the romex and whatever you're plugging in. Not sure if that helps either of us.

***WARNING: What follows are admissions not meant to be read by the weak of heart. Or stomach…***

But, let me get into something I had been thinking about after Mr. Bresnahan's most recent post. (didn't have time at work to respond properly to it)

"Snake oil" can be a really funny thing. I've bought into it MANY times throughout my 44 years, and there's no guarantee that I'm immune to it even now. About 20+ years ago I got into a huge "new age" kick. Enya, yoga, herbal supplements, the whole nine yards. As a byproduct of that I got into all sorts of "natural" remedies and supplements of rather dubious efficacy. Now, I will say that I still try to adhere to yoga to this day (though poorly, lately) as it is great for strength training and flexibility. And Enya, hey, Orinoco Flow is still rather catchy. But, all the supplements and "natural" remedies? Oy, I would be embarrassed to even begin to calculate money pissed down that drain.

But you know what? I felt on top of the world physically AND mentally! Unfortunately, I now know that a lot of that was the placebo effect. And that actually kinda saddens me to a certain degree. I almost wish I could have that placebo effect back. As the character Chris Stevens famously said on Northern Exposure, "we all need a little fantasy".

To bring it into modern day, when I first got my Emotiva DAC, my wife and I were blown away by the notable difference it made in sound quality when hooked up to my 15 y.o. HK receiver (keep this in mind, because it's important). As well it should. 15 years of advances in electronics SHOULD yield some positive results, right? Well, later I got my Emotiva amp and preamp. Hooked them up and was duly impressed. The old lady said, "yeah they sound fine, but they didn't make anywhere near as much difference as the DAC". Now THAT'S the 'who cares, just play some music I like' old lady I've been with for 28 years! In my mind, and ears, she was just missing out!

Then I added my Dynaudio speakers. The coo deh grah! To my mind and ears they sounded like angels singing down upon me from heaven above! Her response? "Yeah, they're 'nice'". All the while looking at me with both pity and love (both honestly earned, goddammitt!).

Broads...

But you know what? She was right. That DAC was a game changer. The rest? Minute improvements.

What I'm really trying to get at here is that we all have a truly magical ability to bullshit ourselves. It's just nice when we have someone in the real world to point out the silliness of it all.

So if you hear a difference in your power outlets, then fucking rock on, brother. Ultimately, I'm glad that you do. But, we all, and I mean WE ALL, need to take care when it comes to passing on these things to others. I accidentally got mjzee into the Emotiva rabbit hole, and I hope he's finding as much enjoyment from their equipment as I am.

Either way, as you stated earlier Stefan, communicating in this intertube world can be problematic. I'm still learning everyday.

[Stefan Wood]

True. I never said that the Hubbell is a game changer. I said it did something that made my listening experience more enjoyable. For all I know it is a darn good outlet that has better made parts where it counts -- at the connections, both in the wall and from whatever machine I am plugging into it. Like I said, this was the only "snake oil" audio upgrade I can accept. No green markers on cds, no rubber cones that I rest my component son to reduce vibration, etc. And I would never pass onto others any dubious claims of audiophile nirvana. For around $20, it is a nice little thing to try out. The true highway robbery is when other companies take this product, cryo treat it, slap their logo on it and sell it for close to double or triple the price.

[Scott Dolan]

Yeah, the cryo bullshit really takes the cake. That's right up there with speaker wire break in. Inanimate objects don't "break in".

Oh, and just be fair to those with tube systems, vibration dampers can be handy if the shelf you have the amp on isn't as sturdy as it should be. But they are a waste of money for anything else.