Daniel A Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 As mentioned elsewhere I plan to record an album with my band. I would like to do a version of the tune "Stars" - allegedly written by Art Farmer - which only appears on a bootleg Farmer album on the Moon label. Parts of the story regarding this album can be found in these two threads: The problem is that the tune does not appear to have been copyrighted, and I'm not positively certain that it's written by Art Farmer (I don't want to rely on what's printed on the album sleeve, since all the sideman credits are wrong). The session seems to have been one of many that were recorded for Austrian Radio (ORF) in the late 60s, featuring trombonist Erich Kleinschuster's group with various guests. I've spoken with pianist Fritz Pauer who confirms that he was on this particular session, but he can't remember any details. Neither jazz researcher Mike Fitzgerald is able to provide additional information. On suggestion from STIM, the Swedish Performing Rights Society, I wrote to BMI with an enquiry regarding the composition "Stars", since Farmer was contracted to them. However, I did not get a reply. To be able to clear the rights for the composition, I would need to get in contact with someone at ORF, with Erich Kleinschuster or Robert Politzer (the other survivors from the possible personnel), or maybe a person at BMI who administrates the rights for Farmer's other compositions. Org members with even remote connections that could possibly be of any help are welcome to drop me a message or post in this thread. Help of any kind, no matter how slight, is much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) FWIW, it would appear that our own Rock Center has Kleinschuster's contact info (according to this post HERE). This tune isn't on the recently released 2nd volume of late 60's Kleinschuster radio recordings?? I know one of the discs in vol 2 is with Farmer and Jimmy Heath (both). My copy is 1,000 miles away in DC, or I'd check myself. If so, surely the composer credits would be accurate. (Though digging through some of the search results on "Kleinschuster" here just now, it would appear, Daniel, you're already well aware of these releases, and I'm guessing probably already have them.) Edited February 22, 2011 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Thanks for the suggestions, Tom. Unfortunately this session is not on any of the Kleinschuster CD sets released by Universal. I actually tried to contact Rockefeller Center some time ago, but it appears he is no longer frequenting these forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Try it again - Rocky was here in January. I wanted to direct you to the Red Octopus store in Vienna, who initiated the two Kleinschuster issues, but they are out of business ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Yes, Red Octopus closed quite a while back. And rocky has relocated to Switzerland quite a while ago, too - so I don't think he could really help. But I might organize access to the ORF for you (via someone I know from the internets that could maybe help... he seems to know people from the ORF). Can't promise it will work, but drop me a PM or Email and I'll try! Btw, great that you're doing another CD! The first one is fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 http://repertoire.bmi.com/TitleSearch.asp?querytype=WorkName&page=1&fromrow=1&torow=25&keyname=stars&blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=False&blnArtist=True&blnAltTitles=True Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Thanks, guys! The composition is not in BMI's database, at least not under the name "Stars". I've sent you a PM, Flurin. I'll let everybody know how everything turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Mystery solved, it seems... there's a tune registered by that title under Erich Kleinschuster's name. Dealt with it by PM/Email with Daniel (and a third party who did the inquiries on our behalf) - but thought the result might possibly be of interest here, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Registered where? I checked the link Sangry gave, and couldn't come up with anything. WE DEMAND PROOF!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Registered with Gesellschaft der Autoren, Komponisten und Musikverleger (AKM). To find it, go to: http://www.akm-aume.at/index_werksuche.htm put in "stars" in the first row's empty field (leave "enthält" as is) put in "kleinschuster" in the second row's empty field (again leave "enthält") hit "suchen" and... ye shall get yer proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) I owe Flurin a big thank you for this! Amazingly, everybody involved replied almost instantly, and the mystery was more or less solved within the course of an afternoon. I've been wondering about this tune (and the session) for six years... Edited February 23, 2011 by Daniel A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 The only mystery left to me is what generated this session. Was it ever released, was it a demo, just what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I believe this session was one in a long series recorded for broadcast by ORF during the period 1968-1972, where Kleinschuster's band featured various guests. The sessions for the aforementioned sets featuring Carmell Jones/Joe Henderson/Farmer/Heath/Hampton were from this series as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Yes, Kleinschuster had his own show on ORF, did lots of shows and plenty of recording with his own Sextett, sometimes including guests such as the ones found on the two 2CD sets, but there were shows with Charles Tolliver, John Surman, Dexter Gordon and others as well. He's had a long-standing relationship with ORF. My guess is that "Art Worker" was just one (of many) radio captures (maybe a leaked pre-fm though it doesn't sound that good at all) that made it onto the grey-market (that later turned black when laws against bootleggers got stronger). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 So it was a "live in the studio" thing done for a later broadcast (what used to be called a "transcription"? Or was it an actual broadcast that was also recorded live in the studio as it was being broadcast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) "Art Worker" was fake live, with applause dubbed-in by the Moon "engineers". Not uncommon for Europe during these years, it seems to have been a plain studio recording - like a session for an album - made for later broadcast as a "concert without audience". There were sessions like these made in Sweden too, and I think other countries as well. Edit: BTW, I just noticed that this was my 1611:th post here. Wasn't that your member number back at the BNBB, Jim? Edited February 24, 2011 by Daniel A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Yes, live in the studio for later broadcasting. There are some FM captures around of Kleinschuster announcing his own music between tunes - and definitely not doing so live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 So it was a "transcription date", to use the old parlance. Interesting...wonder how many more of those there might be floating around... # 1611 @ BNBB? Could be, I honestly don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 And rocky has relocated to Switzerland quite a while ago, too - Is he still around Basel or did he move again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 # 1611 @ BNBB? Could be, I honestly don't know. Just something that came to my mind. I recall that "Chaney" had 3001. Maybe a concept for a thread; "Member numbers you remember..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 "Member numbers you remember..." Great song title! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 So it was a "transcription date", to use the old parlance. I'm just curious; does "live in the studio" (=transcription) mean anything else than a studio recording intended for broadcast? Could a recording session when the tunes are not recorded in order (and when there may be false starts and alternate takes and so on) still be "live in the studio", or does the term implicate a "live" recording of a whole set from start to finish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 It's a term going back to radio days when shows would be recorded for broadcast later. In a day when a lot of shows were still broadcast live, the distinction was made between a live broadcast and "transcribed for broadcast". Technically/harcore, I suppose the term should only be reserved for real-time preservation of real-time performances, but given the amount of post-production that came into the mix (i.e. - announcers & advertisements, even, as you note, applause being added after the fact), I suppose the term could be used to indicate any set of performances recorded live in the studio for the sole purpose of being broadcast later (i.e. - not intended for commercial release as a standalone album). That's how i see it, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 And rocky has relocated to Switzerland quite a while ago, too - Is he still around Basel or did he move again? That's the last thing I know. But alas I've not been in touch at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted April 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 After some correspondence it has turned out that no publisher has the rights for "Stars" and that permission must be obtained from Mr. Kleinschuster himself. As always, I would be very grateful for any information that could help to put me in contact with Erich Kleinschuster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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