BERIGAN Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) Sounds like a real hardened criminal we are lucky to have off the streets Edited February 22, 2011 by BERIGAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Sick. Totally sick. Let the real loonies run free and wield and tote their guns and do NOTHING about them toting and actually firing their guns (or even possessing them) and all this in the name of the "land of the free" - and then this. How hypocritical can you get?? Or is this another way of living out one's own incompetence in dealing with the REAL criminals? If you cannot get to grips with street gangs, backwoodsy "white supremacy" militia gun hoarders or the like, then why not haul away 11-year olds in handcuffs instead? Must make you feel real good in your cop attire and satisifed that you#ve done a really good job in fighting the real threats to society at large. Lousy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Sick. Totally sick. Let the real loonies run free and wield and tote their guns and do NOTHING about them toting and actually firing their guns (or even possessing them) and all this in the name of the "land of the free" - and then this. How hypocritical can you get?? Or is this another way of living out one's own incompetence in dealing with the REAL criminals? If you cannot get to grips with street gangs, backwoodsy "white supremacy" militia gun hoarders or the like, then why not haul away 11-year olds in handcuffs instead? Must make you feel real good in your cop attire and satisifed that you#ve done a really good job in fighting the real threats to society at large. Lousy. Unfortunately, the school district is afraid of lawsuits. If the kid does something violent in the future (and I not talking about killing people either) they would be held liable if it was discovered that something like the drawing took place, the school knew about, and did nothing. Same with the police, they can't win on this case no matter how they handled it. Lawyers drive everything now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 See the first paragraph of this Alfred Hitchcock bio: http://eric.b.olsen.tripod.com/hitchcock.html Perhaps we've got a new Hitch in the making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Unfortunately, the school district is afraid of lawsuits. If the kid does something violent in the future (and I not talking about killing people either) they would be held liable if it was discovered that something like the drawing took place, the school knew about, and did nothing. Same with the police, they can't win on this case no matter how they handled it. Lawyers drive everything now... I don't know. The school determined that the child wasn't a threat and sent him back to class. He went home from school on his own, then was arrested at his home. Certainly someone at the school let the fuzz know what was going on. Unless I missed it, the story didn't say how the police became aware of the kid's drawings. His therapist thinks the police reaction to the drawings was out of line. His mother, too. If the principal sent him back to class, his or her initial assessment seems to dovetail with that of the child's therapist and mother. If the police determined that they were required to take some kind of action, I'm sure they had some flexibility. They should have considered a home visit from an officer trained in dealing specifically with emotionally challenged children. Hauling the kid off to jail shows a complete lack of judgment on the part of the police, which is not really surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 My friends and I used to make drawings of people getting blown up by bombs and by "people", I mean bullys, the teacher, principal, etc. I can only imagine what they'd do to me and my friends now. We've seriously lost our collective mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 This is fucked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy T. Frog Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Police arrest Billy Crystal over inappropriate schtick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 My friends and I used to make drawings of people getting blown up by bombs and by "people", I mean bullys, the teacher, principal, etc. I can only imagine what they'd do to me and my friends now. We've seriously lost our collective mind. I always think back to the short-short story I wrote in the eleventh grade about smuggling a shotgun into school and blowing away some of the school assholes. It got me an "A" in '74; I suppose now it would get me five to ten... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think it's funny that Berigan doesn't know what to say when we all agree with him on something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Storer Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Unfortunately, the school district is afraid of lawsuits. If the kid does something violent in the future (and I not talking about killing people either) they would be held liable if it was discovered that something like the drawing took place, the school knew about, and did nothing. Same with the police, they can't win on this case no matter how they handled it. Lawyers drive everything now... If we let them, anyway. "Zero tolerance" is stupid. Does using intelligent judgment cause a risk? Yes. But exercising horrifically bad judgment to protect against a hypothetical risk leads, in this case, to actual (not risked) mistreatment of a young child. Teacher, school administrators, police... all adults. All acting irresponsibly, and the vulnerable party, the child, is the one who gets traumatized. (They might say they are acting in accordance with their legal responsibilities, but they are ignoring their responsibility, as members of human society, not to frighten, intimidate and shame little children for no good reason.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 It's the local police that is in need of therapy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILLYQ Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 It's the local police that is in need of therapy I didn't originate it, but Zero Tolerance= Zero Intelligence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cih Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Where else should a troubled kid sublimate his anger if not in a 'therapy' session, with a pencil and paper! What use is it if he is compelled to repress the rage TOTALLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I hope his parents sue the ass off the police department and the school. My son has ADD and the school, although providing requisite services and such, was only interested in the star students. I'm so glad he's out of that god damn school system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 If the school sent him back to class and considered it a non-issue, why the hell did they call the Police in the first place? It would seem to me that the school's decision to release student information to the police in this case was ill-advised. Drag an 11 year old to a police station and run him through all the crap just to "scare him straight" (wouldn't surprise me); that's one seriously dumbass police department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 The irony is that all this ridiculousness still doesn't stop the Jared Loughners of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Sick. Totally sick. Let the real loonies run free and wield and tote their guns and do NOTHING about them toting and actually firing their guns (or even possessing them) and all this in the name of the "land of the free" - and then this. How hypocritical can you get?? Or is this another way of living out one's own incompetence in dealing with the REAL criminals? If you cannot get to grips with street gangs, backwoodsy "white supremacy" militia gun hoarders or the like, then why not haul away 11-year olds in handcuffs instead? Must make you feel real good in your cop attire and satisifed that you#ve done a really good job in fighting the real threats to society at large. Lousy. Unfortunately, the school district is afraid of lawsuits. If the kid does something violent in the future (and I not talking about killing people either) they would be held liable if it was discovered that something like the drawing took place, the school knew about, and did nothing. Same with the police, they can't win on this case no matter how they handled it. Lawyers drive everything now... That's a fact, too. Schools who might ignore this do so at their own risk. Parents are sue happy these days. Conservatives would blow a self-righteous fuse over this....then whine about the taxes, collective bargaining, unions, accountability, tailor made education in an off-the-rack world, bitch about pretend teacher incompetence and the like....but I digress. I hope his parents sue the ass off the police department and the school. My son has ADD and the school, although providing requisite services and such, was only interested in the star students. I'm so glad he's out of that god damn school system. That wouldn't happen in my school district. I caution not to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. Edited February 23, 2011 by GoodSpeak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Unfortunately, the school district is afraid of lawsuits. If the kid does something violent in the future (and I not talking about killing people either) they would be held liable if it was discovered that something like the drawing took place, the school knew about, and did nothing. Same with the police, they can't win on this case no matter how they handled it. Lawyers drive everything now... If we let them, anyway. "Zero tolerance" is stupid. Does using intelligent judgment cause a risk? Yes. But exercising horrifically bad judgment to protect against a hypothetical risk leads, in this case, to actual (not risked) mistreatment of a young child. Teacher, school administrators, police... all adults. All acting irresponsibly, and the vulnerable party, the child, is the one who gets traumatized. (They might say they are acting in accordance with their legal responsibilities, but they are ignoring their responsibility, as members of human society, not to frighten, intimidate and shame little children for no good reason.) Schools have no other choice, Tom. This "no tolerance" policy is mandated by the state and feds AND expected by the taxpayers...especially after the Columbine shootings. We could lose funding or worse, get sued up the ass by angry parents hell bent for monetary gain if schools don't follow through. Nothing we can do about it. I think what we're missing here is where were the parents in all this? They bring the kids up, not us. We are merely reacting to a situation, any situation, which we have been backed into. Don't blame schools, blame the parents. Edited February 24, 2011 by GoodSpeak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Garrett Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 My friends and I used to make drawings of people getting blown up by bombs and by "people", I mean bullys, the teacher, principal, etc. I can only imagine what they'd do to me and my friends now. We've seriously lost our collective mind. I always think back to the short-short story I wrote in the eleventh grade about smuggling a shotgun into school and blowing away some of the school assholes. It got me an "A" in '74; I suppose now it would get me five to ten... When I was a sophomore in HS, our history teacher went into a fair amount of detail one day about how easy it would be to take over the large city we lived in with a relatively small force by attacking specific elements of the local infrastructure like ports, power plants, water and gas utilities, and so on. Try that today and DHS would be frog-marching his ass out the front door before the bell signaling the end of the period rang. Presumably he had the opportunity to further refine this plan, as he subsequently joined the military and has since risen through the ranks to become a fairly senior officer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I think what we're missing here is where were the parents in all this? They bring the kids up, not us. We are merely reacting to a situation, any situation, which we have been backed into. Don't blame schools, blame the parents. What do you mean, "Where were the parents in all this?" They've been helping the kid with therapy and his therapist tells him to draw rather than lash out physically, so that's what he does. It sounds like the parents are doing the best they can. I would say even the educators did the right thing, except calling the police but maybe they are mandated to do that. The police, on the other hand, acted completely out of line. I'd be suing the police department right now for wrongful imprisonment among other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I noted the end of the article where the parents mention their costs (1000s of $$) and say they wish instead of their son co-operating they had got a lawyer intially and he had exercised his right to remain silent. Take that back one step and the logic is he should have remained silent when questioned at school, since whatever he said there was presumably used against him, so to speak. The logic then becomes that the principal's office is but one step away from an interrogation cell, the teachers are the patrol officers, and anyone accused of anything at school should say nothing. For UK education shenanigans, and on a different note I guess, check out the story of 'Miss Rusty': http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/feb/22/teacher-risque-novel-tribunal-result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 The logic then becomes that the principal's office is but one step away from an interrogation cell, the teachers are the patrol officers, and anyone accused of anything at school should say nothing. You haven't been in an American school recently, have you? Many urban schools now feature metal detectors and the Supreme Court has held that students in school do not enjoy the usual complement of rights against unreasonable searches and seizures. I had a douchebag assistant principal in high school who insisted on bringing in rent-a-cop goons to rifle through people's bags to search for weapons, even though our high school consisted of 400 arts students. We're talking about a place with only about 140 straight men in it. I remember exactly one fistfight - the idea of someone bringing in a weapon to school was absurd. Only rational explanation I can think of is that maybe he was covering his own ass by complying with a districtwide policy handed down to all principals to enforce. FWIW, I think people are probably forgetting that this kid's school is only about a half hour's drive from Littleton. Not that that excuses it, but I can certainly understand why people in this area would be touchy about anything depicting the violent deaths of teachers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILLYQ Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Here's another Zero Tolerance=Zero Intelligence: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/kicked_out_for_prank_8itjNST1uZYzxodQW3GwhM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McG Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) I think what we're missing here is where were the parents in all this? They bring the kids up, not us. We are merely reacting to a situation, any situation, which we have been backed into. Don't blame schools, blame the parents. What do you mean, "Where were the parents in all this?" They've been helping the kid with therapy and his therapist tells him to draw rather than lash out physically, so that's what he does. It sounds like the parents are doing the best they can. I would say even the educators did the right thing, except calling the police but maybe they are mandated to do that. The police, on the other hand, acted completely out of line. I'd be suing the police department right now for wrongful imprisonment among other things. OK, but when a kid does something contrary to school policy and the school deals with it the only way it is allowed to, by law, why is the school the bad guy? What I was saying is parents all too often take the path of least resistance and foist blame on the schools. In this case, the parents are doing what they can but let's be honest here: The suggestion to draw does not include being vulgar, am I right? I have kids with multiple medical issues for which they must take medication. Even kids like this know right from wrong. That is where the parents come in, yes? Edited February 24, 2011 by GoodSpeak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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