AllenLowe Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 amen - though I think Nora Jones sounds fine on folkie-type things. On jazz things she's very sad. And it makes me sad; what would Ravi say? Quote
Christiern Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 Ravi raved—long before anyone else did. Quote
JSngry Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 Are you saying that because Spalding is jazzy and Bieber is boyish-pop, that this in itself makes her better? No. Not even. On any given day, I'll take a good Ronnettes record over anything by Spalding (and consider it "better"), but that's not the point. My ongoing affection for quality ear candy should be a matter of record here. If it's not, it's certainly not my fault. The point, or one of them, is that while both Spalding & Bieber are both "aiming pop", each in their own way, Spalding is aiming there with some pretty loaded musical ammunition - harmonies & melodic contours that fall waaaay outside the genrally accepted "conventions" and are frequently banned (sic) in the places that decide who gets to hear what along the way. "Jazzy" has nothing to do with it. You could write a total boy-pop song with non-diatonic harmonies and angular melodic contours, and with the right talent behind it along the way, possibly even sell it. But that's not going to happen any time soon. "The powers that be" these days get nervous, angry even about stuff like this. The net result is that our Collective Popular Ears are devolving to the point where we can only hear total Smoothness or Total Noise, nothing in between. Mental processes follow suit. Not that there's not a place for Bieber-like performers. There always has been, and there always should be, and sometimes some really nice work gets done. So no beef here about that. What I do have a beef about is the ongoing "smoothing out" - melodic, harmonic, and rhythmic - of all mass popular music over the last several decades. That reaally, really bugs me, because it's all about limiting perceptions/feelings/whathaveyou rather than opening them. So if Spalding can get popular and get some of those "thornier" shapes back into the popular mix, hey, go for it, and go for it well. I myself don't know how much she'll ultimately be able to get away with (not too much more, I imagine), but I searched YouTube for an hour or so last night looking for something of hers that was just pure diatonic flatline BLAH in content and couldn't find it. Execution varied widely in terms of "intensity", but that is not a factor of her presence that I have any interest in, at least not now. Spalding is likely to become a "popularizer" more than a "creative force", but I'm ok with that. Anything that makes "wider" musical constructions sound less "weird" to the mainstream is ok by me. The arguments of "artistic merit" are for another place, at least for me. Right now, there's somebody bringing the 64 box to school instead of the 8. I'll not be the one to discourage that. Quote
jlhoots Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 I know it's not what we're talking about, but her bass playing is very good (IMO) on the new Lovano CD. Quote
JSngry Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 cross-over You know, if enough people make the trip, it's not crossing over any more, it's a new "there". Quote
JSngry Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 I know it's not what we're talking about, but her bass playing is very good (IMO) on the new Lovano CD. Yeah, she can play, and play well. I think her singing is a little "generic" in expressivity right now, but that may or may not evolve. Time will tell. My biggest bug with her whole thing is not the material (most of which is actually pretty nifty often enough) nearly as much as it is her presentation. The backup band is just not hitting it, they sound tame and reserved. Maybe that's by design, to put the entire spotlight on her, maybe it's just a bandleading sensibility that needs more growth, I don't know, but there's not enough OOMPH to her band. If Zawinul were alive today, he could fix all that. Not sure that Joe Lovano can... Now this IMO is another story: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=TycBeLure74 and for fairly clear reasons, no? Monday has been a prophet without honor on her home planet. But anybody working the same basic ideas will get my attention and at least initial encouragement. The prophecy is sound. The planet has not been. Quote
medjuck Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 Now this IMO is another story: and for fairly clear reasons, no? This sounds way too much like "smooth Jazz" to me-- the only musical genre that gives me the shingles. (This may just be a blind spot on my part. I suspect that many aficionados of that genre are at least as intelligent and have at least as good taste as I do. Some of them may even like Alan Lowe as well as liking smooth jazz.) Quote
Ron S Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 More importantly, who won Best New Hairstyle? (Please make it Justin. Please make it Justin. Please make it Justin.) Quote
JSngry Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 If Monday simply did "smooth jazz", she'd be rich and famous and by now. She doesn't (not even close), and she's not. Anything but... Quote
Mark Stryker Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) Are you saying that because Spalding is jazzy and Bieber is boyish-pop, that this in itself makes her better? Spalding is likely to become a "popularizer" more than a "creative force", but I'm ok with that. Anything that makes "wider" musical constructions sound less "weird" to the mainstream is ok by me. The arguments of "artistic merit" are for another place, at least for me. Right now, there's somebody bringing the 64 box to school instead of the 8. I'll not be the one to discourage that. I agree with this. The issue of raising the quality of music available in the mass marketplace, or to put it another way, making higher quality music more available in the mass marketplace, is an important, serious and worthwhile goal in itself. As much as I wish we lived in an environment in which "Take Five" or "Song for my Father" could sneak onto top 40 radio, those days are long gone. This isn't about the future of jazz or whether Spalding is a creative force in the way any particular subset of jazz fans would define it. When Herbie wins Best Album or Spalding wins Best New Artist, it's good not because it means "jazz is back" or it promises a new era of popularity for jazz but because the next day after these things happen America feels just a little bit hipper than it did the day before. Granted, the base line measure is really, really square and, yeah, in the long run it may not make any difference. But I'm for anything that's a victory for helping more people find their way to a greater variety of quality music of whatever style or genre. Edited February 16, 2011 by Mark Stryker Quote
JSngry Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 I'll even say that it's not about making anything intrinsically "better" nearly as much as it is just increasing the number of "plausible options" that people are aware that they have & can consider with having reflexive conniption fits because all of a sudden there's this whole bunch of...STUFF that sounds like anti-music to them when it's really anything but. Options are good, ya' know? Quote
Larry Kart Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 If Monday simply did "smooth jazz", she'd be rich and famous and by now. She doesn't (not even close), and she's not. Anything but... I'm far from a Monday expert, but IMO there's a lot of pretty intense stuff happening there per unit of time. And she means it. Quote
AllenLowe Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 I honestly don't think that victories for Herbie and Esparanza translate into anything broader for jazz - it's too much like the trickle down theory. It just encourages more of their kind of music (which may be fine; it just means something different than any real benefit for jazz) - as a matter of fact, we could hope the same thing for Marsalis, when in fact he has been the single biggest economic drain on the US domestic jazz booking scene in the history of that scene (meaning, his fees are so high that he regularly wipes out budgets; talk to a few agents) - Quote
JSngry Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 If Monday simply did "smooth jazz", she'd be rich and famous and by now. She doesn't (not even close), and she's not. Anything but... I'm far from a Monday expert, but IMO there's a lot of pretty intense stuff happening there per unit of time. And she means it. And she's learned how to convey that she means it. When she was 26, I think she was still working as a secretary and was just trying to get her vocal thing underway. She had already been a really good classical flutist and such, but had never even considered doing pop music, much less doing what she finally ended up doing with it... I honestly don't think that victories for Herbie and Esparanza translate into anything broader for jazz - You know, I really don't care about what happens to "jazz". I'd just like for more people to be less freaked out by a broader palate of options than is now the case.Anybody that can get that going is ok with me. If "jazz" can reach people on those grounds, so much the better. If not, hey. Quote
RDK Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 I'm somewhat blown away by the fact that many jazz fans seem intent on debating Spalding's merits as an artist instead of congratulating her on something that is a bit of a coup. On the Jazz Programmers List recently more time was spent dissing Bieber's fans for dissing Spalding than in congratulating her. Fickle bunch... +1 Does she need to progress , yes ! Will she , only the future will tell, meanwhile let's appreciate it, sme way we're thrilled gere for Arcade Fire despite thinking the album they did was probably the weakest one. Not to derail this thread, but perhaps to show how opinions differ, but I find The Suburbs to be AF's best album by far. Maybe it was because I grew up in the 'burbs, but that record really speaks to me. Quote
Van Basten II Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 I'm somewhat blown away by the fact that many jazz fans seem intent on debating Spalding's merits as an artist instead of congratulating her on something that is a bit of a coup. On the Jazz Programmers List recently more time was spent dissing Bieber's fans for dissing Spalding than in congratulating her. Fickle bunch... +1 Does she need to progress , yes ! Will she , only the future will tell, meanwhile let's appreciate it, same way we're thrilled here for Arcade Fire despite thinking the album they did was probably the weakest one. Not to derail this thread, but perhaps to show how opinions differ, but I find The Suburbs to be AF's best album by far. Maybe it was because I grew up in the 'burbs, but that record really speaks to me. I would say that my opinion is in the minority, I know that The Suburbs were hailed by mostly everyone who follow Indy music, Neon Bible that I actually liked is considered the weakest of the three LP Quote
Swinging Swede Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Speaking of the Grammys, did you guys see this clip? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGJ2XRJBHM8 Quote
papsrus Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Hadn't seen it. Heard about it. They took her to the hospital thinking she may have suffered a stroke. Don't know the outcome. Quote
clifford_thornton Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Not a stroke - severe migraine, she's okay. Quote
Dan Gould Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 It was the result of a migraine. Not really sure why it went viral, its funny when a reporter says (or sounds like he might have said) "Keep fucking those chickens" but I fail to see the humor when someone has a potentially serious medical problem on live television. Quote
Man with the Golden Arm Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 Interesting thread - while I did not see the original broadcast the highlight for me was having my teenager text me when Esperanza won. She being an on the fence love-em-hate-em Beiber semi-fan was happy for jazz for some reason. Good kid! Quote
jazzbo Posted February 21, 2011 Report Posted February 21, 2011 That's cool MWTGA! I think Ms. Spalding must now began mentioning Steve Brown, Welllman Brau, Jimmy Blanton, Ray Brown, Teddy Kotick, Charles Mingus, Ron Carter, Doug Watkins, Ben Tucker, William Parker, etc. at her gigs. Telling little one-liners or vignettes. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted February 22, 2011 Report Posted February 22, 2011 Welllman Brau You are just too cool for the class. Quote
Larry Kart Posted February 22, 2011 Report Posted February 22, 2011 ! Welllman Brau, Also, Scoot LaFeral. Quote
Dave James Posted February 22, 2011 Report Posted February 22, 2011 Lon, I was mining another thread when I found the missing "d". Let me know if you'd like me to send it to you. This can be a tough room to play! Quote
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