Esparanza Spalding beats out Justin Bieber for 'best new artist&#3

[Larry Kart]

It's about a young 21st Century woman with some decent enough jazz skills as part of her overall musical palate who sounds like.... a young 21st century woman with some decent enough jazz skills as part of her overall musical palate.

And could Deion Sanders have covered Deion Sanders?

[JSngry]

spalding is a solid mediocre by any standard

Any standard?

Wrong.

Justin Bieber & Esperanza Spalding are most decidedly not = in "mediocrity" when placed on the same platform for comparative consideration, which is what the Best New Artist Grammy Award does.

It's about a young 21st Century woman with some decent enough jazz skills as part of her overall musical palate who sounds like.... a young 21st century woman with some decent enough jazz skills as part of her overall musical palate.

And could Deion Sanders have covered Deion Sanders?

With his wardrobe, yeah.

[clifford_thornton]

In today's NY Times, Nate Chinen refers to Spalding as "the precociously gifted, 26-year-old bassist."

Precocious? At Spalding's age, Clifford Brown was dead.

A little perspective please.

I was talking to Alvin Fielder once and mentioned "the young drummer Mike Reed." Alvin's response was something like "he's in his thirties at least, so he's an old guy now!" and proceeded to ask whether there were any real young (under 23) drummers making a splash, and I actually couldn't think of any.

Yes, Mike is in his mid-30s, but of very worthwhile drummers I know and get to hear a good deal, Marc Riordan (also an excellent pianist) is 29, and Dylan Ryan is 27. Other notable youngish players I'm aware of are altoist Nick Mazzarella (27), trumpeter Jaimie Branch (27) and Brooklyn-based trumpeter Jacob Wick (26).

Indeed on some of these names. I always think of 20s-30s as "young" but to some I guess it isn't.

[Rooster_Ties]

I'm pretty sure read somewhere a while back that she was in Greg Osby's band for a time. That's some cred (of some sort) as far as I'm concerned, not that what I think on the subject matters much.

And how about we all agree that she is at least "recently precocious" by most measures.

[Teasing the Korean]

interesting discussion between Larry and JSngry. I have been in similar discussions regarding age/accomplishment vs. the climate to foster development. I tend to feel that 26 is relatively young by today's standards - there are more artistic choices for young artists.

Not to mention the fact that we're all living longer and we're delaying adulthood and maturity as much as humanly possible. Just look at the baby boomers...

[JSngry]

I'm pretty sure read somewhere a while back that she was in Greg Osby's band for a time. That's some cred (of some sort) as far as I'm concerned, not that what I think on the subject matters much.

And how about we all agree that she is at least "recently precocious" by most measures.

Nothing about Osby here, but plenty of other background, some of it interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanza_Spalding

For instance:

Spalding says she loves fusion music and was influenced by a "wonderful arc that started 40 years ago where people kept incorporating modern sounds into their music."^[10] She has expressed concerns that jazz has wandered from its roots, suggesting that jazz has lost its street value and its relevance to "the Black experience to the Black Diaspora and beyond" now that has been co-opted by the "seasoned 'art' community."^[6] She notes that in its early days, jazz was "popular dance music" and "the music of young people who considered themselves awfully hip", and believes "hip-hop, or neo-soul ... is our 'jazz' now as far as the role these genres play in the music genre lineage...."^[6]

She has said she models her career on those of Madonna and Ornette Coleman.

She does not consider herself a musical prodigy.^[17] "I am surrounded by prodigies everywhere I go, but because they are a little older than me, or not a female, or not on a major label, they are not acknowledged as such," says Spalding.

[AllenLowe]

"suggesting that jazz has lost its street value and its relevance to "the Black experience to the Black Diaspora and beyond" now that has been co-opted by the "seasoned 'art'community"

the New Fascism, arts-style.

[Chuck Nessa]

Whatever.

I have been bored by her music - both on recordings and in person.

She will do well.

[JSngry]

"suggesting that jazz has lost its street value and its relevance to "the Black experience to the Black Diaspora and beyond" now that has been co-opted by the "seasoned 'art'community"

the New Fascism, arts-style.

For somebody who gets all rippy-zippy about incomplete quotations being used out of context to create server the quoter's agenda, I'm a little surprised that you don't use the whole quote (which was not all from her, btw, but from some WikkiWikkiWikkiPedia Person:

She has expressed concerns that jazz has wandered from its roots, suggesting that jazz has lost its street value and its relevance to "the Black experience to the Black Diaspora and beyond" now that has been co-opted by the "seasoned 'art' community."^[6] She notes that in its early days, jazz was "popular dance music" and "the music of young people who considered themselves awfully hip", and believes "hip-hop, or neo-soul ... is our 'jazz' now as far as the role these genres play in the music genre lineage...."^[6]

Would you seriously care to seriously argue against that point? Seriously?

Besides, I think she's mostly right that

jazz has lost its street value and its relevance to "the Black experience to the Black Diaspora and beyond" now that has been co-opted by the "seasoned 'art' community."^[6]

You don't?

^{[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanza_Spalding#cite_note-Jazzreview-5"]}

[AllenLowe]

1) I didn't take it out of context; those are two separate points -

2) and whether I do or don't isn't the point - the point is that any attempt to impose cultural-correctness on jazz is coercive in nature; what jazz is should be dictated by the need for expression, not some sociological requirement. That smacks of Stanley Crouch-ism.

Edited February 16, 2011 by AllenLowe

[Chuck Nessa]

Little of this matters. It is about "music"(for me - others have different agendas) and Ms Spalding is making a career by riding on the backs of hundreds of others.

I'm sure she will do well. I hope she does well.

[JSngry]

what jazz is should be dictated by the need for expression , not some sociological requirement. That smacks of Stanley Crouch-ism.

Seems to me that the need for expression (of something other than the same old "jazz truth") is what is dictating Spalding's music...that's why it really doesn't overtly sound like anybody else and doesn't make too much of an effort to be conscientiously "jazz" or any thing else.

You don't like it, fine. I'm sure that Stanley Crouch doesn't either.

Little of this matters. It is about "music"(for me - others have different agendas) and Ms Spalding is making a career by riding on the backs of hundreds of others.

Who isn't/doesn't/hasn't?

Edited February 16, 2011 by JSngry

[JSngry]

Think about it -

This:

was named Best New Artist over this:

Anybody here got a problem with that?

[Adam]

Also, of course, this is the Grammys, which have long been ridiculous, and this is the most ridiculous award at the Grammys, one that only creates embarrassment in this day and age.

They really should get rid of it as a category, not say that it is one of the top categories.

http://en.wikipedia....Best_New_Artist

But the Beatles won it. So did Bob Newhart.

They could alternatively create "Best Teen Boy Idol" as a category for Bieber, and whomever next's year's hot thing will be.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Adam

[Van Basten II]

I'm somewhat blown away by the fact that many jazz fans seem intent on debating Spalding's merits as an artist instead of congratulating her on something that is a bit of a coup. On the Jazz Programmers List recently more time was spent dissing Bieber's fans for dissing Spalding than in congratulating her. Fickle bunch...

+1

Does she need to progress , yes ! Will she , only the future will tell, meanwhile let's appreciate it, sme way we're thrilled gere for Arcade Fire despite thinking the album they did was probably the weakest one.

[thedwork]

seems to me she could be singing that tune directly to some posters in this thread. good for her.

[AllenLowe]

face it, boys, she's a big nothing.

[Jim Alfredson]

[Larry Kart]

Think about it -

This:

was named Best New Artist over this:

Anybody here got a problem with that?

I have thought about it, Jim, and while I don't have a problem with Spalding being as popular as she can be, if I'm at all equipped to get what each of them is up to here, I think Bieber"s "One Less Lonely Girl" is a good deal more successful instance of what it aims to be than that Spalding's "Crayola" is of what it aims to be. The former is the musical equivalent of a pack of Chuckles (are they still around?) -- a slick, sugary experience that's over in a few minutes, is not good for your teeth, and (dropping the Chuckles analogy) tells a story. The latter is eight or so fairly long minutes of fairly bland noodling -- nothing I think that one would choose to pay much attention to unless one was told that it has to be Spalding or Bieber ... and why does it have to be?

Are you saying that because Spalding is jazzy and Bieber is boyish-pop, that this in itself makes her better? I would think that runs counter to a whole lot of stuff you've said here in recent years.

[Larry Kart]

Now this IMO is another story:

and for fairly clear reasons, no?

[papsrus]

All I know is that Bieber video is creepy.

[Larry Kart]

All I know is that Bieber video is creepy.

Creepy, sure, but it tells the story it aims to tell.

[AllenLowe]

I used to love Chuckles

[Dave James]

All I know is that Bieber video is creepy.

Creepy, sure, but it tells the story it aims to tell.

Thanks to auto-tuning. Today's crop of faux singers ought to pay T-Pain 10% of their gross.

[ejp626]

I basically agree with Larry. I don't particularly like Spalding's recordings and I thought she was awful in performance. Same as I don't like Norah Jones. Why should I celebrate the fact that they won, when in fact I think this actually makes jazz even more irrelevant, pushing major labels into releasing more smooth jazz and boring cross-over artists?