J.R.MONTEROSE - Straight Ahead CD on DIW

[JSngry]

This is the DIW cd cover.

This is the Xanadu LP cover, except in purple and white. The original was gold & black.

Pretty sure that LP - the Xanadu - was not a needle-drop. They released several JARO items in conjunction with Fred Norsworthy, iirc, so they would have had authorized use of the master tapes.

[AllenLowe]

Schlitten was always extremely careful and ethical about material he issued and reissued, and I'm sure that Monterose agreed to the Xanadu edition - after all it's not like it was going to sell a lot of copies, even (or especially) back then -

[Dmitry]

For a somewhat obscure LP, it sure went through some incarnations...at least two different covers on Xanadu alone.

[Steve Gray]

Seeing the close up for that JARO LP and seeing the logo has made me realise what JARO stands for ....

J Arthur Rank Organisation

The Rank Organisation was a film distributor in England in the 50s,60s, 70s and possibly longer.

If you know cockney rhyming slang you might have some idea what 'having a j arthur' was all about.

I am amazed if they had anything to do with producing Jazz LPs in the early 60s.

[brownie]

'The Message' might have been obscure when it came out but as Mark Garner remarked in his liner notes to the 1975 Xanadu LP reissue

There may be surprise in certain quarters that five British critics considered this set one of the "essential" records of modern jazz made between 1945 and 1970.'

[king ubu]

If, according to Paul, the Xanadu LP was dubbed from the Jaro LP, it makes no sense buying the Xanadu LP to improve the sonics of my DIW cd [i was gearing up to buy the Japanese Xanadu LP]. I wonder if the Fresh Sounds cd was dubbed from an LP as well...

Can someone with the Prevue CD please comment on the sound.

Does it sound like a needledrop? Is it stereo or mono?

Ok, spinning it now... it sounds ok - not great (some weird sound on the cymbals, the kind of thing that was noted with a few Blue Note CD reissues as "due to deterioration of the master tapes...", I guess). Definitely stereo.

I'm in no position to confirm it's not a needledrop (I can't tell from distortion or any artifacts that hence it has to be a cleaned-up needledrop), but to me it doesn't sound like one. For sure, there are none of the obvious signs during the quiet parts or before and after the music.

Also, to be noted, is the mix-up of the setlist:

printed on the tray & sequence of Nat Hentoff's notes:

1) Straight Ahead

2) Violets for Your Furs

3) Green Street Scene

4) Chafic

5) You Know That

6) I Remember Clifford

7) Short Bridge

actual sequence on my CD:

1) Straight Ahead

2) Violets for Your Furs

3) Chafic

4) I Remember Clifford

5) Green Street Scene

6) You Know That

7) Short Bridge

so, #3-6 are jumbled around... no idea why or if it's a simple mistake - but it's easy to tell as everyone knows "I Remember Clifford" and Hentoff refers to "Chafic" as a waltz (which #3 of the CD clearly is).

The Prevue CD has Hentoff's original and Mark Gardner's 1975 liner notes and it states that the reissue was produced by Don Schlittenn (mastered by Krieg Wunderlich - is that a real name or a weird nom-de-plume?

Anyway, great album for sure!

[clifford_thornton]

Schlitten was always extremely careful and ethical about material he issued and reissued, and I'm sure that Monterose agreed to the Xanadu edition - after all it's not like it was going to sell a lot of copies, even (or especially) back then -

Yeah, doesn't mean he didn't regret it for whatever reason later on.

I still think the duo with Han Bennink is one of the most killing things I've ever heard.

[Steve Gray]

Seeing the close up for that JARO LP and seeing the logo has made me realise what JARO stands for ....J Arthur Rank OrganisationThe Rank Organisation was a film distributor in England in the 50s,60s, 70s and possibly longer.If you know cockney rhyming slang you might have some idea what 'having a j arthur' was all about.I am amazed if they had anything to do with producing Jazz LPs in the early 60s.

Obviously this is of no interest to you non-brits but according to Wikipedia (yes I know) JARO was indeed part of the J Arthur Rank Organisation.

Wiki Link

J Arthur Rank films were well known for starting with a Charles Atlas lookalike hitting a large gong with a hammer.

I would love to know the names of the people who connect J Arthur Rank with Babs Gonzalez, J R Monterose and Kenny Dorham and whoever else recorded for JARO.

[Chuck Nessa]

According to JR, Nat Hentoff was the guy - and he did sue Schlitten. I first heard this music from JR's (warped) copy in 1965.

[AllenLowe]

interesting - I just have heard musicians with so many paranoid legal theories (myself included) that I really wonder whether he had grounds. Sometimes they're so used to people stealing from them that they can't tell the difference.

[king ubu]

According to JR, Nat Hentoff was the guy - and he did sue Schlitten. I first heard this music from JR's (warped) copy in 1965.

Sorry, but this is too much for me to follow, even in context of having re-read the above posts...

Nat Hentoff is the guy who... (did what?)

Who "he" (Hentoff, JR?) sued Schlitten?

Got to think of us poor non-native speakers when making such references!

[J.A.W.]

According to JR, Nat Hentoff was the guy - and he did sue Schlitten. I first heard this music from JR's (warped) copy in 1965.

Sorry, but this is too much for me to follow, even in context of having re-read the above posts...

Nat Hentoff is the guy who... (did what?)

Who "he" (Hentoff, JR?) sued Schlitten?

Got to think of us poor non-native speakers when making such references!

It's all a bit opaque to me too

[Chuck Nessa]

JR said Hentoff was responsible for the Jaro recordings. JR did sue Schlitten.

[paul secor]

One night when I heard J.R. playing in a small club in Albany, the pianist was a lawyer. I wonder if he represented J.R. in the lawsuit.

"The Pianist Was a Lawyer" - could be a good title for something.

[king ubu]

JR said Hentoff was responsible for the Jaro recordings. JR did sue Schlitten.

Thanks for clarifying, Chuck!

[jeffcrom]

I am playing my LP copy now - it's a facsimile reissue, possibly the LP Clifford was referring to in the second post. It's mono, and if it's a needle drop, I can't tell. It sounds pretty good - a little distortion around the edges. It didn't occur to me when I bought it about five years ago that it might not be a legitimate issue, but I suppose it might very well not be.

[Steve Gray]

If, according to Paul, the Xanadu LP was dubbed from the Jaro LP, it makes no sense buying the Xanadu LP to improve the sonics of my DIW cd [i was gearing up to buy the Japanese Xanadu LP]. I wonder if the Fresh Sounds cd was dubbed from an LP as well...

Can someone with the Prevue CD please comment on the sound. Does it sound like a needledrop? Is it stereo or mono?

Ok, spinning it now... it sounds ok - not great (some weird sound on the cymbals, the kind of thing that was noted with a few Blue Note CD reissues as "due to deterioration of the master tapes...", I guess). Definitely stereo.I'm in no position to confirm it's not a needledrop (I can't tell from distortion or any artifacts that hence it has to be a cleaned-up needledrop), but to me it doesn't sound like one. For sure, there are none of the obvious signs during the quiet parts or before and after the music.Also, to be noted, is the mix-up of the setlist:printed on the tray & sequence of Nat Hentoff's notes:1) Straight Ahead2) Violets for Your Furs3) Green Street Scene4) Chafic5) You Know That6) I Remember Clifford7) Short Bridgeactual sequence on my CD:1) Straight Ahead2) Violets for Your Furs3) Chafic4) I Remember Clifford5) Green Street Scene6) You Know That7) Short Bridgeso, #3-6 are jumbled around... no idea why or if it's a simple mistake - but it's easy to tell as everyone knows "I Remember Clifford" and Hentoff refers to "Chafic" as a waltz (which #3 of the CD clearly is).The Prevue CD has Hentoff's original and Mark Gardner's 1975 liner notes and it states that the reissue was produced by Don Schlittenn (mastered by Krieg Wunderlich - is that a real name or a weird nom-de-plume?Anyway, great album for sure!

Thank you.

From your description of the sound I think we can say that the Prevue and Fresh Sound CDs are sonically more or less equivalent.

The Fresh Sound does have the tracks in the correct order though.

[Head Man]

If, according to Paul, the Xanadu LP was dubbed from the Jaro LP, it makes no sense buying the Xanadu LP to improve the sonics of my DIW cd [i was gearing up to buy the Japanese Xanadu LP]. I wonder if the Fresh Sounds cd was dubbed from an LP as well...

Can someone with the Prevue CD please comment on the sound. Does it sound like a needledrop? Is it stereo or mono?

Ok, spinning it now... it sounds ok - not great (some weird sound on the cymbals, the kind of thing that was noted with a few Blue Note CD reissues as "due to deterioration of the master tapes...", I guess). Definitely stereo.I'm in no position to confirm it's not a needledrop (I can't tell from distortion or any artifacts that hence it has to be a cleaned-up needledrop), but to me it doesn't sound like one. For sure, there are none of the obvious signs during the quiet parts or before and after the music.Also, to be noted, is the mix-up of the setlist:printed on the tray & sequence of Nat Hentoff's notes:1) Straight Ahead2) Violets for Your Furs3) Green Street Scene4) Chafic5) You Know That6) I Remember Clifford7) Short Bridgeactual sequence on my CD:1) Straight Ahead2) Violets for Your Furs3) Chafic4) I Remember Clifford5) Green Street Scene6) You Know That7) Short Bridgeso, #3-6 are jumbled around... no idea why or if it's a simple mistake - but it's easy to tell as everyone knows "I Remember Clifford" and Hentoff refers to "Chafic" as a waltz (which #3 of the CD clearly is).The Prevue CD has Hentoff's original and Mark Gardner's 1975 liner notes and it states that the reissue was produced by Don Schlittenn (mastered by Krieg Wunderlich - is that a real name or a weird nom-de-plume?Anyway, great album for sure!

Thank you.

From your description of the sound I think we can say that the Prevue and Fresh Sound CDs are sonically more or less equivalent.

The Fresh Sound does have the tracks in the correct order though.

I don't want to be a party-pooper but I played the Fresh Sounds CD this morning and it's pretty lo-fi. It IS in stereo but it's that sort of stereo that's left and right but no middle. It doesn't sound like a needle drop but the sound is very harsh and I find it difficult to listen to.

However, the music itself is good so I suppose if this is as good as it gets.......

[Steve Gray]

If, according to Paul, the Xanadu LP was dubbed from the Jaro LP, it makes no sense buying the Xanadu LP to improve the sonics of my DIW cd [i was gearing up to buy the Japanese Xanadu LP]. I wonder if the Fresh Sounds cd was dubbed from an LP as well...

Can someone with the Prevue CD please comment on the sound. Does it sound like a needledrop? Is it stereo or mono?

Ok, spinning it now... it sounds ok - not great (some weird sound on the cymbals, the kind of thing that was noted with a few Blue Note CD reissues as "due to deterioration of the master tapes...", I guess). Definitely stereo.I'm in no position to confirm it's not a needledrop (I can't tell from distortion or any artifacts that hence it has to be a cleaned-up needledrop), but to me it doesn't sound like one. For sure, there are none of the obvious signs during the quiet parts or before and after the music.Also, to be noted, is the mix-up of the setlist:printed on the tray & sequence of Nat Hentoff's notes:1) Straight Ahead2) Violets for Your Furs3) Green Street Scene4) Chafic5) You Know That6) I Remember Clifford7) Short Bridgeactual sequence on my CD:1) Straight Ahead2) Violets for Your Furs3) Chafic4) I Remember Clifford5) Green Street Scene6) You Know That7) Short Bridgeso, #3-6 are jumbled around... no idea why or if it's a simple mistake - but it's easy to tell as everyone knows "I Remember Clifford" and Hentoff refers to "Chafic" as a waltz (which #3 of the CD clearly is).The Prevue CD has Hentoff's original and Mark Gardner's 1975 liner notes and it states that the reissue was produced by Don Schlittenn (mastered by Krieg Wunderlich - is that a real name or a weird nom-de-plume?Anyway, great album for sure!

Thank you.

From your description of the sound I think we can say that the Prevue and Fresh Sound CDs are sonically more or less equivalent.

The Fresh Sound does have the tracks in the correct order though.

I don't want to be a party-pooper but I played the Fresh Sounds CD this morning and it's pretty lo-fi. It IS in stereo but it's that sort of stereo that's left and right but no middle. It doesn't sound like a needle drop but the sound is very harsh and I find it difficult to listen to.

However, the music itself is good so I suppose if this is as good as it gets.......

I don't think anyone has claimed that this is a very good recording.

The main thrust has been to determine which issues are not from a needledrop and are in stereo.

In general I agree with your comments about the sound but I don't find it difficult to listen to.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Steve Gray

[sidewinder]

I am playing my LP copy now - it's a facsimile reissue, possibly the LP Clifford was referring to in the second post. It's mono, and if it's a needle drop, I can't tell. It sounds pretty good - a little distortion around the edges. It didn't occur to me when I bought it about five years ago that it might not be a legitimate issue, but I suppose it might very well not be.

I have a copy of that 'Jaro International' LP too (I'd thought it was legit - I guess not) and agree that it sounds pretty good. Certainly good enough for my needs. It was also bought about 5-6 years ago.

Edited February 8, 2011 by sidewinder

[Clunky]

I've a gold CD of this session on Freshsound (FRCD 7001), claims 20 bit mapping from "original stereo tapes" . It's certainly in stereo and doesn't sound like a needle-drop to me. Sound is pretty decent , with wide sound stage but the tenor very much to the left. It sound a little grainy with the sound of the sax the only thing that suffers. I've not heard any other version so don't know if the gold CD etc makes any difference. I'd guess not !!!

[Niko]

same here, but it's my only gold cd and i've always liked it :-)

[clifford_thornton]

It didn't occur to me when I bought it about five years ago that it might not be a legitimate issue, but I suppose it might very well not be.

I seem to remember it being done by Scorpio, which pretty much guarantees its questionable legitimacy. They did all those Saturn boots a few years back.

If I had the kind of cash lying around for an original, well, it'd be a different story.

[Dmitry]

If I had the kind of cash lying around for an original, well, it'd be a different story.

I've never seen an original JARO Monterose for sale.

[Chuck Nessa]

I found one in 1966 - still sealed. Sadly, I sold it to finance my cds.