michel1969 Posted November 27, 2006 Report Posted November 27, 2006 (edited) Sorry : doug W. Edited November 27, 2006 by Michel Quote
brownie Posted November 27, 2006 Report Posted November 27, 2006 Sorry : doug W. No bid on this one yet. A bit high for a starting price. This True Blue just went slightly higher! Quote
Allan Songer Posted November 27, 2006 Report Posted November 27, 2006 No bid on this one yet. A bit high for a starting price. Yeah--like TRIPLE it's value. Jeesh . . . . Quote
michel1969 Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 I think it is pathetic to see what record collecting has become in the recent years. The guy who sells this record doesn't even know what he's selling (and he's proud of that). But he has probably seen that htis record goes for 400/500 so he decides "let's go for 1500". In this case, he doesn't know that Transition is not Blue Note, means, that there are probably no collectors who are insane enough to pay three times the price, as it is the case with Blue Note. So he will not sell it, and lower the price next week.. But have you noticed those insane "buy it now" prices for 2nd, 3rd, no DG Riverside or Emarcy ? This is totally absurd. But who is responsible for that ? On one hand, the responsible for this absurdity are mainly those japanese bidders : at the beginning of years 2000's their "three times the prices" bidding policy have turned all this into a ridiculous mess. And everybody did the same. Now you see US, European bid three times the price. On the other hands, the aggressive marketing policy of Ebay sellers is also responsible : "it's the last time you'll see such a beautiful copy", "never offered in such pristine condition" "near archival quality of this rare LP" (i especially like the "near archival" = means that you'll store it near your shelves ?) "near Mint Minus" "VG++++++++" "A chance in a lifetime to own a piece of legend" , when actually there are three for sale at the same time, and 10 a year... Quote
sidewinder Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 (edited) Some of these fanatic collector guys should just buy some nice $5 OJCs and listen to the actual music - for once. Edited November 28, 2006 by sidewinder Quote
Big Beat Steve Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 Agreed with Michel. Seems like on that Sonny Rollins Saxophone Colossus auction the 5 or 6 highest bidders are all from somewhere in Asia and have all been fighting it out among themselves. You get an idea of the insanity if you see that the record went for almost twice the price that someone like "ondemand12" who used to bid high on a LOT of auctions for quite a few years would have wanted to pay. This may sound like "sour grapes" but Sidewinder is right - in the end it's the music that counts. It's nice to get hold of an original but at THAT kind of money you have to be sick in your brain to still ENJOY having an original. I even doubt that this is that much of an investment for the buyer. But maybe it's just like what's been said in one of the threads on this subject here: "Never cared too much for the CD but when I got an original I just dug it" - Is this what these collector fanatics are thinking? "It's an original so it's' JUST GOT to be good"? Do they get a kick out of knowing that that pop and click on track 3 on side 2 has already been heard by some cat in 1958 when he slapped the record on the turntable and held the sleeve in his grubby hands? Silly! Better listen a bit closer to the music in the first place! And as for those "once in a lifetime" opportunities, from all I've seen (and searched for) it's certainly not items on Blue Note or similar labels that have never shown up again after you've missed one single auction. Quote
michel1969 Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 Yellow lbl NY "Saxophone Colossus" has sold 10 times in NM condition since 2004. There are around 40 (all grades) that are listed on Popsike. "Once in a lifetime" opportunity.... Quote
Peter A Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 I think it is pathetic to see what record collecting has become in the recent years. The guy who sells this record doesn't even know what he's selling (and he's proud of that). But he has probably seen that htis record goes for 400/500 so he decides "let's go for 1500". In this case, he doesn't know that Transition is not Blue Note, means, that there are probably no collectors who are insane enough to pay three times the price, as it is the case with Blue Note. So he will not sell it, and lower the price next week.. But have you noticed those insane "buy it now" prices for 2nd, 3rd, no DG Riverside or Emarcy ? This is totally absurd. But who is responsible for that ? On one hand, the responsible for this absurdity are mainly those japanese bidders : at the beginning of years 2000's their "three times the prices" bidding policy have turned all this into a ridiculous mess. And everybody did the same. Now you see US, European bid three times the price. On the other hands, the aggressive marketing policy of Ebay sellers is also responsible : "it's the last time you'll see such a beautiful copy", "never offered in such pristine condition" "near archival quality of this rare LP" (i especially like the "near archival" = means that you'll store it near your shelves ?) "near Mint Minus" "VG++++++++" "A chance in a lifetime to own a piece of legend" , when actually there are three for sale at the same time, and 10 a year... You make it all look a bit like a conspiraracy. I don't think Japanese buyers suddenly had a "three times the prices" bidding policy since 2000; it is a fact that prices have always been much higher in Japan. Main cause for the current high prices is the fact that ebay has created a "world wide market" for rare jazz records. Of course I - like you - regret that thanks to eBay it has become very difficult to find original Blue Note records for reasonable prices at record fairs and local shops, buts it's a development which can't be turned back. And this development of course attracts a lot of lunatics, who try to sell not so rare records for high prices (via "buy it now'). On the other hand one should not underestimate (potential) buyers; I have rarely seen that such not so rare records were sold for crazy buy-it-now prices. Quote
michel1969 Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 Prices are higher in Japan, because life is much more expensive in Japan generally speaking... And i agree that some "BIN" records do no sell : fortunately, there is still some autoregulation among collectors. But i also I remember this True Blue priced at bin 2500 $ in Atomic. Three weeks.. and someone bought it eventually.... definitely, i will never understand this rush towards so called rare Blue Notes. But i really think that the beginning of the crazyness was around 2000. No conspiracy of course, just some rememberings : the first auctions catalogues in Paris Jazz Corner, in october 1999 : i was an active bidder on the first auction. I talked to everyone at the staff in PJC : everybody was astounded by the unexpected high bids : 500, 600, 1000... And then the train was gone... Quote
michel1969 Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 1999 = ebay obviously. definitely. seriously. absolutely. Quote
jazzhound Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 (edited) people who bought vintage jazz records just five years ago have seen the value of their lps go up substantially. the marketplace is not wrong. those who do not see the value are. the Saxophone Colossus buyer will see his investment go up 50% in 5 years at minimum. Plus he gets to listen to a great recording in its original ( and absolute best) release. Edited November 30, 2006 by jazzhound Quote
michel1969 Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 people who bought vintage jazz records just five years ago have seen the value of their lps go up substantially. the marketplace is not wrong. those who do not see the value are. the Saxophone Colossus buyer will see his investment go up 50% in 5 years at minimum. Plus he gets to listen to a great recording in its original ( and absolute best) release. I don't think that something that has grown up so fast will keep on eternally. I started collecting records in 1997, and i know i have made some good investment (if i SELL, of course). At more than 2 k, the investment is not so evident...Anyway. "We are in the middle of the croud, trying to guess what the croud will do", as Mr Keynes said about the stock market. Quote
Peter A Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 people who bought vintage jazz records just five years ago have seen the value of their lps go up substantially. the marketplace is not wrong. those who do not see the value are. the Saxophone Colossus buyer will see his investment go up 50% in 5 years at minimum. Plus he gets to listen to a great recording in its original ( and absolute best) release. But, on the other hand, not ALL records have gone up in value. Prices of early Blue Notes and Prestiges, like Saxophone Colossus, have certainly risen quite a bit. But prices of other (supposedly) rare records, like most English Tubby Hayes LP's, and especially not-so-rare records have stagnated or even gone down a bit. For instance at some point almost all the Dexter Gordon BN LP's (4000 and 4100 series) reached prices of more than 300$. Nowadays it is possible to buy them - even on ebay - for around 150$. You see the same kind of development in the art world (especially modern and contemporary art): more or less common paintings are less wanted, but the real masterworks have increased dramatically in value. Quote
michel1969 Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 Peter, i absolutely agree with you regarding Dexter. I remember some 4133, 4112 auctionned at 400 or 500 $ two years ago ! Now it is affordable again. Same for Undercurrent which i saw at 900 $ : now it is at 350/ 500. True Blue sold often for 2000 : now it is at 1500. Seems that as soon as the bunch of crazy bidder has the item, price decrease. Quote
jbs-tom Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 as long there is ebay: to increase the value of records dramatically is not in sight ! of course we had all a great time with it in the early days mostly - now many of us say goodbye to ebay because of the problems discussed in this forum very often. but every record will show up again and again - like peter says above: only the real masterpieces are hard to find and that means i.e. for blue note: lexington pressings or 47 west pressings in almost mint condition. all other issues will not rise in my opinion very much. if you have not at least a mono and near mint copy of a blue note you have lost already (from the money view of course only !) Quote
michel1969 Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 as long there is ebay: to increase the value of records dramatically is not in sight ! of course we had all a great time with it in the early days mostly - now many of us say goodbye to ebay because of the problems discussed in this forum very often. but every record will show up again and again - like peter says above: only the real masterpieces are hard to find and that means i.e. for blue note: lexington pressings or 47 west pressings in almost mint condition. all other issues will not rise in my opinion very much. if you have not at least a mono and near mint copy of a blue note you have lost already (from the money view of course only !) That's why, eventually, i'm still very happy to collect records, even if i complain sometimes. We can still buy plenty of them, at least 95 % of what we want. Quote
porcy62 Posted December 2, 2006 Report Posted December 2, 2006 (edited) I find all these posts interesting as buyer of jazz records, but I never discussed with my financial agent about Lexington's pressing or True Blue. When JPMorgan will include them in some of its investment fund, or Moodys and Standard and Poors will appoint an AAA on a 47 West deep groove, I am ready to change my position, until then I agree with Michel. Edited December 2, 2006 by porcy62 Quote
brownie Posted December 3, 2006 Report Posted December 3, 2006 Sorry : doug W. No bid on this one yet. A bit high for a starting price. This True Blue just went slightly higher! Bidding price was brought lower. Still no taker in the end! Quote
brownie Posted December 3, 2006 Report Posted December 3, 2006 Couple more hours to go - and no bid yet - for this rare Miles Davis CD set not vinyl! The Last Word! Quote
michel1969 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Posted December 4, 2006 Another "rare" (the third in three weeks on Ebay) that will of course, go to Japan at, of course, more than 1500 $ by, of course, an "Esnipe" specialist.... same old story. http://cgi.ebay.com/JACKIE-McLEAN-The-New-...1QQcmdZViewItem meanwhile, Doug is back... perhaps Akira did not found it mint enough : http://cgi.ebay.com/WATKINS-AT-LARGE-TRANS...1QQcmdZViewItem Quote
michel1969 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Posted December 4, 2006 No DG, but its written "Blue Note", right ? lets go for 400 !! http://cgi.ebay.com/BLUE-NOTE-BLP-4024-47-...1QQcmdZViewItem I think i'll sell my NM DG and buy Velvet acetate. Or maybe a Boeing 777. Quote
porcy62 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Posted December 4, 2006 ...Or maybe a Boeing 777. Air companies were a good investments after 9/11, now their prices raised up again. If I were you I would go for the VU. Quote
Allan Songer Posted December 4, 2006 Report Posted December 4, 2006 No DG, but its written "Blue Note", right ? lets go for 400 !! http://cgi.ebay.com/BLUE-NOTE-BLP-4024-47-...1QQcmdZViewItem I think i'll sell my NM DG and buy Velvet acetate. Or maybe a Boeing 777. I find it difficult ot understand someone dropping four bills on a Liberty pressing. Would someone so new to collecting Blue Notes really spend that kind of money? Guess so. I wonder if they keep scatching their head about this "DG" and "ear" thing in many of the ebay listings? Quote
clifford_thornton Posted December 4, 2006 Report Posted December 4, 2006 Another "rare" (the third in three weeks on Ebay) that will of course, go to Japan at, of course, more than 1500 $ by, of course, an "Esnipe" specialist.... same old story. http://cgi.ebay.com/JACKIE-McLEAN-The-New-...1QQcmdZViewItem And even Atomic has had several copies in the past few years... this one looks pretty nice, though. Quote
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