ebay madness re: vinyl

[Dmitry]

Not eBay, obviously, but at a local record store yesterday. DMM Lee Morgan - Search For The New Land, $75 plus tax = $80.25. Do you think someone will bite? Lee is sceptical.

 

[sidewinder]

Stores are, I guess, sticking their old DMMs in the rack to cash in on the Tone Poet madness/demand.

[paulfromcamden]

Nuts. DMMs used to be a tenner a pop (because, we were told, they all sound terrible. hmm.) now seem to be £20+

I guess Search For The New Land is a less common title (at least it is over here) ...but $75?!

[Daniel A]

17 minutes ago, paulfromcamden said:

Nuts. DMMs used to be a tenner a pop (because, we were told, they all sound terrible. hmm.) now seem to be £20+

I guess Search For The New Land is a less common title (at least it is over here) ...but $75?!

Something seems to have happened to the vinyl market during the last two years. Prices have skyrocketed. This is the price statistics for the US DMM pressing of Search for the New Land (completed sales at Discogs since 2020). 

[Dmitry]

Note the remnants of the STRAWBERRIES RECORDS sales tag/label on that Morgan. Strawberries was a chain of record stores in New England, owned by Morris Levy, the gangster who also owned the Roulette Records. After his famous televised apprehension, the company was sold several times, until it ceased to be in the late 2000s. I managed to shop there a couple of times when I moved here. Although they had virtually no LPs at that time, they did have an unpredictable used cd section, which sometimes produced a gem. At the very end I was one of maybe two or three customers in a 10,000 sf store. Then it became FYE Music, then that also died, and is now a Tall and Big Male clothing store, or something else.
Now, returning to the previous post, the owner of the store where I snapped this photo, got a hold of a bunch of sealed Fantasy/OJC vinyl,  still  with Strawberry tags. He priced them from $20 up, most in the $30 range. Those OJC records have really appreciated over time. I would routinely see, and buy them for $5. 

7 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Something seems to have happened to the vinyl market during the last two years. Prices have skyrocketed. This is the price statistics for the US DMM pressing of Search for the New Land (completed sales at Discogs since 2020). 

Madness....who is buying these?! Do you know anyone?

Edited February 20, 2022 by Dmitry

[Kevin Bresnahan]

You couldn't pay me to take any DMM LP over the CD of that title. I was never impressed by the sound quality of that cutting system.

[Daniel A]

sell 

1 hour ago, Dmitry said:

Madness....who is buying these?! Do you know anyone?

I have avoided them for 20 years because of their dull sound and only have a couple left in my collection. But the market has spiraled out of control. I suppose there are people desperate for vinyl but who can no longer afford other pressings. Kings and sometimes even Toshibas sell for more than $100 these days.

There is an element of suspense in relation to internet auctions and also "hunting" in sites like Discogs that seem to feed the same type of unhealthy behavior with some people as gambling does. Enough people seem ready to overspend, maybe as they don't "feel" the expense in the same as if they have to pay upfront in a physical store, that prices overall become inflated. An internet vinyl bubble? 

Last week I scored a King pressing of "Out to Lunch" for $25 on eBay. Seemed like a good price to me. Other times, it will go for twice the amount. So the market is really unstable these days. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Daniel A

[mjazzg]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

I have avoided them for 20 years because of their dull sound and only have a couple left in my collection. But the market has spiraled out of control. I suppose there are people desperate for vinyl but who can no longer afford other pressings. Kings and sometimes even Toshibas sell for more than $100 these days.

I think this is it.

Lots of new customers entering the market with a limited knowledge alongside shops and sellers happy to exploit the situation.  A DMM to a new LP collector in their early 30s was released before they were born and may well have that 'vintage' cachet.  

It's easy enough to sneer (not suggesting you are at all Daniel A) but we were all new to this once. My first BNs were DMMs because they had just been released and as far as I knew at the time that was Blue Note records. Still got a few, still play them too. But I'll not be paying upwards of £50 for any although I may sell them at that price 

Edited February 20, 2022 by mjazzg

[sidewinder]

Glad I hung on to mine !

[Daniel A]

20 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

I's easy enough to sneer (not suggesting you are at all Daniel A) but we were all new to this once. My first BNs were DMMs because they had just been released and as far as I knew at the time that was Blue Note records. Still got a few, still play them too. But I'll not be paying upwards of £50 for any although I met sell them at that price 

Perfectly understood. 

Through the years I have shifted from just trying to get hold of the music ("it's all about the music") to allowing myself the luxury of getting more "desirable" pressings and so on. Unfortunately, when I have now reached the point in life when I can indulge in such behavior, it is becoming too expensive again. Vinyl prices have definitely increased more than my disposable income.

This is maybe the case of wanting to re-live those moments when I discovered the music for the first time. Getting that King or Liberty Blue Note is like finding that rare music in whatever format (CD or DMM LP) in the 90s. Unfortunately, too many wealthy middleaged guys(?) are in the same place. 

[mjazzg]

And just think, it's only going to get worse as a proportion of those currently happy with a DMM purchase will learn more about King, Toshiba and even Liberty pressings and enter that market too, we're doomed 

 

[paulfromcamden]

3 hours ago, Daniel A said:

There is an element of suspense in relation to internet auctions and also "hunting" in sites like Discogs that seem to feed the same type of unhealthy behavior with some people as gambling does.

I think you're right. Luckily I get the same thrill from seeing what I can snag for a couple of quid. While everyone else at the record fair is looking at the trophy records on the wall I'm afraid I head straight for the box under the table... 

[Brad]

I assume this counts as madness but since I’m not one to go after original pressings this may or may not be crazy but an original pressing of Blue Train sold yesterday for $12,600.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296243318459?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=SR8ECHeEQn2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=8Clsqs3wSRS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[clifford_thornton]

LOL

[Eric]

10 hours ago, Brad said:

I assume this counts as madness but since I’m not one to go after original pressings this may or may not be crazy but an original pressing of Blue Train sold yesterday for $12,600.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296243318459?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=SR8ECHeEQn2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=8Clsqs3wSRS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Seller was Jazz Record Center in NY.  They seem to get the best of the very best, not that I am ever a bidder.  Fun to see some of these nicer copies.

[jlhoots]

1 hour ago, Eric said:

Seller was Jazz Record Center in NY.  They seem to get the best of the very best, not that I am ever a bidder.  Fun to see some of these nicer copies.

They bought a bunch of my vinyl almost 25 years ago. Probably got more for it than they paid me, although I did O.K..

[Brad]

9 hours ago, jlhoots said:

They bought a bunch of my vinyl almost 25 years ago. Probably got more for it than they paid me, although I did O.K..

I’m curious, if you don’t mind me asking. If you were living in Santa Fe then did they pick it up or did you ship it to them?

[jlhoots]

6 hours ago, Brad said:

I’m curious, if you don’t mind me asking. If you were living in Santa Fe then did they pick it up or did you ship it to them?

I was living in Wisconsin. They picked everything up. Don't know what their current policy is. It was 100's of LPs.

[Brad]

5 hours ago, jlhoots said:

I was living in Wisconsin. They picked everything up. Don't know what their current policy is. It was 100's of LPs.

Thanks. Just thinking of the day when I might have to sell my collection. 

[Dmitry]

On 3/5/2024 at 9:26 PM, Brad said:

I assume this counts as madness but since I’m not one to go after original pressings this may or may not be crazy but an original pressing of Blue Train sold yesterday for $12,600.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296243318459?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=SR8ECHeEQn2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=8Clsqs3wSRS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

If we read the description: 

The is the rare original RVG-stamped deep groove “P”-pressing of John Coltrane “Blue Train” on the NY 23 label (Side 1) and West 63^rd label (Side 2) of Blue Note BLP 1577.  The playing surface is in new condition, with a beautiful luster; perhaps played once.  The laminated West 63^rd St. cover is exceptional condition – clean throughout; the back slick shows norman age toning and a 3/8” x 1” stain at the lower right corner.  Personnel include Lee Morgan, Curtis Fuller, Kenny Drew, Paul Chambers, and Philly Joe Jones.  $3000.00

Bidding started at $3000. He was confident it would go a lot higher.Also dig the Norman age toning reference. I bet William the Conqueror would appreciate the Coltrane connection.

 

[Pim]

Have there been cases of fake LP scams yet? One might say that would be a lucrative business these days and an LP might be easier to falsify than a painting?

[Brad]

For those who are interested there’s at least one FB discussion about this.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/JazzVinylLovers/permalink/24996359180009874/

[clifford_thornton]

19 hours ago, Pim said:

Have there been cases of fake LP scams yet? One might say that would be a lucrative business these days and an LP might be easier to falsify than a painting?

many, and for as long as I can remember...

[Pim]

50 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

many, and for as long as I can remember...

Really? Wasn’t aware of it. Are people actually creating a false copy or are they trying to make different pressing look like an original? 

[clifford_thornton]

Both. Counterfeits have been a thing for decades, although they're easier to document now. Alterations have also been made to later reissues and sometimes these are passed off as originals to undiscerning buyers.

And I'm positive some fake hand-colored/hand-painted Sun Ras have been going around... in other words, stock older Ra LPs decorated recently by record sellers.