Bill Dixon - Intents & Purposes reissue

[jonathanhorwich]

Good question Chuck.  That's the problem.  No files at all.  They do everything and you're handed the CDs with my own art work which I had to fight for.  But never saw nor touched any file this time.  Just handed the CDs and it is over.  I had no control at all.  Earlier I controlled every single step.

[David Ayers]

Maybe reprint Dogon? Still demand for that, I should think...

[jonathanhorwich]

Thanks. I did just put it out on vinyl so that is now widely available.  It is a pretty nice packaging of the performance. 

[charlesp]

The vinyl version of Dogon A.D. is amazing. I have the Arista LP, Jonathan's cd and LP and my favorite is Jonathan's 2-LP version.

 

[jonathanhorwich]

Well thank you.  Very appreciated.  The vinyl will never be reprinted by me for the record.  It was a one time labor of love.  Doug Sax did the mastering.

[Niko]

while you're still here... I think I understood and share soulpope's question: Compared to the original release, what/how much additional material will there be on the Joe Daley set? (approximately, and, of course, only once you get around to it...)

[jonathanhorwich]

I plan to put out 2 to 3 CDs worth which is 2 to 3 times the original.  As you may know the original vinyl was faked by the producer who made it sound like it was live at Newport when it was NOT.  It was studio stuff that he reverbed to death.  Joe Daley was livid about it.  A mess and dishonest of the producer.  I need to sort through it all and figure it all out and put in in chronological order.  The problem is Sony now.  Will they let me?  I doubt it but I'll figure it out as putting out the trios full output would be fabulous.  And if I remember their best playing is at Newport which most of was not on the album.  That is they really did play at Newport eventually and if my memory has not completely gone, it was their best playing.  There are moments when the trio clicks and it is wonderful.  But Russell Thorne kills on all of it.  His playing is just amazing and different from the usual bass player.  

Edited April 25, 2017 by jonathanhorwich
grammar

[Larry Kart]

Jonathan -- As you know, I knew Russell Thorne fairly well for a while in those years and heard him play a good many times, with the Daley Trio and in other settings. Yes, he was just amazing -- an improvising composer and/or a composing improviser. And he knew a lot of of modern and contemporary classical music pretty much inside out. I remember sitting on the floor of his coach house apartment in Rogers Park as we listened to Jean Barraque's Piano Sonata. Of the other first wave post-La Faro bassists (Gary Peacock, Albert Stinson, who else?) he might have been closest to Stinson, though not in terms of being influenced. I think of Stinson's stunningly abstract solo on "My Joy" with Bobby Hutcherson.

 Actually, I'm not certain that Thorne wasn't pretty much himself before he heard LaFaro, though OTOH I recall hearing from others at the time that Thorne had rapidly made great strides as a player after he came to Chicago (from Duluth, I think it was -- a chair in the bass section of the Duluth Symphony). Certainly his arco skills were beyond that of any jazz bassist of that time and maybe any since. There's some evidence of that on the Daley Trio recordings. One felt that on a good day Russell could improvise a Webern String Quartet; his sense of structure seemed to me to be at that level. Again, unlike some LaFaro descendents, while Thorne could play like the wind, virtuosity per se was not what his music was about. He was a thinker and a shape-maker.

[jlhoots]

52 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

Jonathan -- As you know, I knew Russell Thorne fairly well for a while in those years and heard him play a good many times, with the Daley Trio and in other settings. Yes, he was just amazing -- an improvising composer and/or a composing improviser. And he knew a lot of of modern and contemporary classical music pretty much inside out. I remember sitting on the floor of his coach house apartment in Rogers Park as we listened to Jean Barraque's Piano Sonata. Of the other first wave post-La Faro bassists (Gary Peacock, Albert Stinson, who else?) he might have been closest to Stinson, though not in terms of being influenced. I think of Stinson's stunningly abstract solo on "My Joy" with Bobby Hutcherson.

 Actually, I'm not certain that Thorne wasn't pretty much himself before he heard LaFaro, though OTOH I recall hearing from others at the time that Thorne had rapidly made great strides as a player after he came to Chicago (from Duluth, I think it was -- a chair in the bass section of the Duluth Symphony). Certainly his arco skills were beyond that of any jazz bassist of that time and maybe any since. There's some evidence of that on the Daley Trio recordings. One felt that on a good day Russell could improvise a Webern String Quartet; his sense of structure seemed to me to be at that level. Again, unlike some LaFaro descents, while Thorne could play like the wind, virtuosity per se was not what his music was about. He was a thinker and a shape-maker.

Well I hope we get to hear him.

[jonathanhorwich]

Thanks for this very accurate description, indeed.  You're so lucky to have known him.  I tried to find him in Madison Wisconsin but no luck.  I know he is there doing something. Anyway his playing is truly unique as you so well describe. Makes the whole Daley project worth pursuing despite all.

[soulpope]

On ‎24‎.‎04‎.‎2017 at 10:56 PM, jonathanhorwich said:

Soulpope -- thanks.  Not sure what you meant by: "Could you pls at least be a little more specific how much unissued material is/will be available?"

I have not looked into many reissues lately.  When I get the drive to do so I'll take the wonderful listing the contributors of this site gave me and see if there is something there.

But for sure someday I'll do Joe Daley.  

 

Probably didn`t check the Joe Daley reissue thread properly, but  - omitting the RCA released material - how many Joe Daley Trio tracks could/should be additionally available btw are these studio or live recordings ?

Edit : Just saw my request (also having been asked by forum member "Niko") was answered by yourself subsequently - thnx ....

Edited April 26, 2017 by soulpope

[paul secor]

11 hours ago, jonathanhorwich said:

Thanks for this very accurate description, indeed.  You're so lucky to have known him.  I tried to find him in Madison Wisconsin but no luck.  I know he is there doing something. Anyway his playing is truly unique as you so well describe. Makes the whole Daley project worth pursuing despite all.

Intelius lists a Russell K. Thorne, age 81, in Deerfield, Wisconsin. I didn't search further, but that might be a start.

[Larry Kart]

3 hours ago, paul secor said:

Intelius lists a Russell K. Thorne, age 81, in Deerfield, Wisconsin. I didn't search further, but that might be a start.

Age would be right; that's probably the man himself.

 

[paul secor]

3 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Age would be right; that's probably the man himself.

 

Intelius also lists Chicago as a former residence and lists Occult Book Store as a place where he worked. Seems as if it's he.

[sidewinder]

On 24/04/2017 at 6:08 PM, Harbour said:

I'd love for some more releases by this label, anyone know if Jonathan has anything in pipeline. He was on here a while back looking for suggestions.

With regard to suggestions - I would like to throw in Denny Zeitlin 'Shining Hour: Live at the Trident', which I think Mosaic planned to put out as a single some years back, with the additional takes. Sony would be the source unfortunately - but the music is damn good.

[JSngry]

I want all the available Joe Dailey Trio stuff that exists (there's a local gig tape or two as well, correct?), and will pay good money for it. Not bat-shit crazy money, but when I say "want", I say that not unaware that there are real production costs and that this material cannot be offered as a loss-leader, nor as an at-best-break-even item. So...if it's all real in content and not un-realistic in pricing, I'm gonna be all in on it.

That trio continues to fascinate me, one of those "whole greater than the sum of its parts" type things. And yes, every time I play the record for bassists and tell them that it's 1963, their jaws drop even further than they were already dropped. Joe Daley himself was a hip cornball, ultimately, but he put together a trio that called him out and held him accountable on both parts of that, and he let that happen for what, a year or two? Really, how often does that happen? Not very, that's how often. Most leaders start feeling a draft pretty quickly and retreat ASAP. Joe Daley appears to have been willing to get cut in the interest of increased self-awareness for as long as he (or his band) could handle it.

This is a story that needs to be told, not just for the music, but for the human dynamics involved. Tell it now, and tell it well, please.

[soulpope]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I want all the available Joe Dailey Trio stuff that exists (there's a local gig tape or two as well, correct?), and will pay good money for it. Not bat-shit crazy money, but when I say "want", I say that not unaware that there are real production costs and that this material cannot be offered as a loss-leader, nor as an at-best-break-even item. So...if it's all real in content and not un-realistic in pricing, I'm gonna be all in on it.

That trio continues to fascinate me, one of those "whole greater than the sum of its parts" type things. And yes, every time I play the record for bassists and tell them that it's 1963, their jaws drop even further than they were already dropped. Joe Daley himself was a hip cornball, ultimately, but he put together a trio that called him out and held him accountable on both parts of that, and he let that happen for what, a year or two? Really, how often does that happen? Not very, that's how often. Most leaders start feeling a draft pretty quickly and retreat ASAP. Joe Daley appears to have been willing to get cut in the interest of increased self-awareness for as long as he (or his band) could handle it.

This is a story that needs to be told, not just for the music, but for the human dynamics involved. Tell it now, and tell it well, please.

Spot on ....

[xybert]

4 hours ago, sidewinder said:

With regard to suggestions - I would like to throw in Denny Zeitlin 'Shining Hour: Live at the Trident', which I think Mosaic planned to put out as a single some years back, with the additional takes. Sony would be the source unfortunately - but the music is damn good.

Not sure about extra tracks but it's available good and cheap from Japan.

 

[soulpope]

8 hours ago, xybert said:

Not sure about extra tracks but it's available good and cheap from Japan.

 

Just the original content ....

[jonathanhorwich]

Any how does one order the CD from that site which is in Japanese?  I'd like to.

[xybert]

1 hour ago, jonathanhorwich said:

Any how does one order the CD from that site which is in Japanese?  I'd like to.

There's a tab that lets you change the language setting to english. I've tried to attach a screenshot, hopefully it works. From there it's basically the same as Amazon US although shipping costs/options will vary. 

 

[sidewinder]

2 hours ago, soulpope said:

Just the original content ....

Yep. It's a start though..

[soulpope]

1 hour ago, sidewinder said:

Yep. It's a start though..

Agreed .... outstanding music ....

[jonathanhorwich]

Thanks on the Japan thing but it doesn't recognize my login email so I could not but I just went to normal Amazon and found it easily and ordered it.  Several choices there too.  So simple to get for under $20.00.

JSngry--I think you analysis of the Daley Trio is brilliant.  I've struggled with Daley's playing a bit over the years but I think you hit the nail on the head and that is encouraging.  I just have to figure out how to get it out without Sony messing it up.

Edited April 27, 2017 by jonathanhorwich
new information

[charlesp]

Apologies for going off topic, but I am listening to Jonathan's wonderful reissue of Jeremy Steig's Flute Fever. Of Course, Steig's flute is the reason I pulled this out, but Denny Zeitlin kills of this record. Maybe when I put this back in the shelves I should file it under Zeitlin.