The "B" team

[Sundog]

Barry Galbraith never really got his due. Wonderful arranger and player. How about Harold Land? He retreated to the studio after his work with "Brownie" keeping a fairly low profile, however he should be more widely known IMHO.

Sal Nistico (A+ player) can't say enough about this guy. Wish I had more of his work.

[Rimshot]

Two that immediately come to mind are :

Wallace Roney (has killer chops and instincts, but is always being compared to Miles or Freddie. He belongs in an "A" group but will probably always be looked on as just a B player)

Donald Harrison Jr. (I've never heard him turn in a bad performance and occassionally he is stellar. His years as a tenor sax player with Jazz Messengers give him some props, but he's doing even better stuff now.)

[Rimshot]

Two that immediately come to mind are :

Wallace Roney (has killer chops and instincts, but is always being compared to Miles or Freddie. He belongs in an "A" group but will probably always be looked on as just a B player)

Donald Harrison Jr. (I've never heard him turn in a bad performance and occassionally he is stellar. His years as a tenor sax player with Jazz Messengers give him some props, but he's doing even better stuff now.)

[danasgoodstuff]

Larry,

Insightful post, as usual, makes me really look forward to the forthcomming book...

[montg]

Larry,

Insightful post, as usual, makes me really look forward to the forthcomming book...

Ditto for me

This whole question of lineage and development in jazz is a fascinating one to me. Today's players are both blessed and burdened by the weight of history--it's a tough nut to crack but, it seems to me, the future of the music turns to some degree on this problem. Can't wait to see the book.

[mikeweil]

it was a whole lot harder to absorb Bird and not sound a lot like him -- or more like him than the best Armstrong-influenced trumpeters sounded like Louis.

I think this applies to pianists in particular who cannot avoid Bud Powell influences, or those of newer pianists, from Bill Evans over Wynton Kelly, McCoy Tyner, Herbie Hancock, Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea ... maybe this is what makes Marcus Roberts sound so attractive to my ears, he seems to try and re-invent modern jazz piano by using older styles, Morton, Ellington, Johnson, up to Monk as a foundation and go from there. He knows the newer players of course, but draws not on them as overtly as most younger players.

[randissimo]

Truth is, a lot of the time I'm just as happy listening to Jimmy Forrest as Rollins or Coltrane.

I feel fortunate to have played and recorded with Jimmy Forrest.. He was truly a great tenor sax man and a warm human being..

[CJ Shearn]

Mike, interesting point. I was thinking over the last few days when I listened to both discs of Josh Redman's very nice "Spirit of the Moment" that a lot of younger players, particularly at the height of the young lions movement, some were very distinctive like Redman, Hargrove, Roney.. but others it makes it harder to tell because they share a similar pool of influences.. For example, on the Redman album, I find Peter Martin to be a very good player, but I'm not sure he's distinctive enough to be able to pick out from say, Benny Green, who was able to incorporate Silver/Peterson/Timmons influences into his playing but have a voice of his own somewhat. Martin on the Redman album draws heavily on McCoy and Herbie to my ears, well versed in their voicings and ways of playing single lines.... on "Jig a Jug" theres a double time line that cops Herbie's classic triplet run, but I guess that's the part of the vocabulary now. I've heard Mulgrew Miller do Herbie's triplet run thing (hope I'm describing it right) too.

[SGUD missile]

Here are a few more for your consideration ( tell me how many you've heard ..or heard of )

To give you a start, I'll group them by instruments ..

Saxes ..both alto and tenor:

Hank Mobley ( easy )

George Coleman ( also easy )

Curtis Peagler

Wilbert Dyer

John Hardee

Jimmy Ford

Andre Leroux

Sandy Mosse

James Clay

Rany Lee

Pete Brewer

Wayne Delano

Trumpets:

Jerry Van Blair

Dennis Dotson

John Andersom

Roddney Both

Jay Thomas

Ron Stout

I'll do the rhythm guys later ..time for bed

[EKE BBB]

I´ll add a couple of Ellingtonians who were with the Duke many years. Not profusely featured as soloists, but without them, the sound of this wonderful orchestra wouldn´t have been the same: JIMMY HAMILTON and RUSSELL PROCOPE.

[Free For All]

Trumpets:

Jerry Van Blair

Dennis Dotson

John Andersom

Roddney Both

Jay Thomas

Ron Stout

Dennis Dotson is probably best known for his work with Woody's band. He owned Stapleton's "Come Rain or Come Shine" chart. Didn't DEEP record that on his new CD with Dennis playing the solo? Ron Stout played the shit out that chart too, also on Woody's band. Both of these guys are lyrical, melodic players that I never tire of listening to. I think Dotson still lives near Houston- is it Wheeler or something like that? Any of you Texas guys ever cross paths with him?

Ron lives in LA and has worked/recorded with Bill Holman and Horace Silver. An amazing player who loves to play in the low end of the trumpet.

Neither one is as well known as they should be.

What Phil, no trombones? Or is "underrated trombonist" redundant?

Edited January 15, 2004 by Free For All

[chris]

Curtis Fuller would be B+ IMHO.

How is Curtis anything less than an A? Is this compared to all other musicians (I still don't get it, but OK) or to other trombone players (in which case, them's fightin' words buster