Dmitry Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Given the orchestrated and organized nature of the MJQ music, I wouldn't expect any revelations from the alternate takes.On the alternates I heard the solos were very different. Like the dialogue between Jackson and Lewis and the Lewis solo that follows on the two takes of Sun Dance from the Music Inn sessions I just listened to - totally different. That is very interesting, Mike. If the solos are as different as you say, and Mosaic issues both the S and M takes, I might be remotely interested to hear them, even though I have many of these albums on LPs and CDs. Anyway, it's a nice set, that will sell well. I wish that they brought an engineer like Steve Hoffman, or someone of his caliber, to master the transfers. Edited January 20, 2011 by Dmitry Quote
king ubu Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 Very interesting, Mike! Sounds indeed like an 8CD set going up to 1965 and including some stereo/mono takes would be the best thing to do here! Quote
mikeweil Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 Don't hold your breath - it's just those three tracks that I'm really sure about, and these three alternates probably fit on to the 7 CDs, as all the LPs have rather short playing time under 40 minutes. Quote
king ubu Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 Don't hold your breath - it's just those three tracks that I'm really sure about, and these three alternates probably fit on to the 7 CDs, as all the LPs have rather short playing time under 40 minutes. Ok... but I was also thinking of Stompy Jones' post above: What I don't get is the 1964 cut off date. Half the "Porgy and Bess" album was recorded in in 1965 (unless the disco's are wrong). With the album "Jazz Dialogue" also from 1965 it would make more sense to make 1965 the cut off date. Especially considering the next Atalantic Studio album "Plastic Dreams" is from 1971. So maybe an 8th disc would be in order. That would make room for the alternate takes as well. - which sounds pretty reasonable to me! Quote
tranemonk Posted January 19, 2011 Report Posted January 19, 2011 You're making me a little more interested in this set... I'm going to have to dig out Dedicated to Connie and take another listen... MC assured me he will look into this. Seems like the discographies are not accurate about this, but that happens all the time. I discovered this purely by accident. I bought an English stereo pressing of Fontessa, which sounded kinda weird - extremely two channel, nothing in the middle, and lots of tape hiss, low level of the instruments - I liked the music, but the sound made it even softer than it was. The hiss was so loud the cymbals were almost inaudible in soft passages. I never was quite sure whether some mistake had happened during the LP mastering ... I sold it when the CD came out, which turned out to be from the mono masters, which indeed sound much better, all instruments ahev a lot more presence, but I wondered about some takes being different - the one I was completely sure about was Bluesology, which has a short solo vibes intro - both are completely different. As are the solo chorusses. The group sound is so different on the mono masters that I wasn't sure about the other tracks. I had an original US stereo LP of The Comedy which I almost wore out, so I sold that too before actually buying the CD. I regret it, since although tape hiss was high and I had worn the grooves the mono LP had a lot more punch. One take was different, I think it was Harlequin, and the segue into it from the preceding track was different, too ... Third case is the first Music Inn LP with Giuffre. I have a Japanese CD issue AMCY-1090 which is in stereo but has an alternate mono take of Sun Dance as a bonus track. Totally different solos, as I stated above. Never underestimate the improvising capacities of the MJQ. These guys could play, and that their music was over-arranged is a common prejudice. I remember reading in some liner notes that they once tested a critical audience by asking which parts were improvised, and the people's judgements were 50% wrong. Just ordered a copy of Dedicated to Connie - must be from the same tour as the European Concert double album, which is great - that was one of my first jazz LPs, and I still know most arrangements and John Lewis solos inside out. Listen to the opening track from The Comedy - they swing like mad, and real fast, too. They were great, period. Quote
jazzbo Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 I'll be very happy if they choose Malcolm Addey to master this set. I'd prefer him to Steve Hoffman. Ultimately, I know I won't be able to resist ordering this set, even though I have much of the music on cd, and a lot of them recently as well. Quote
sidewinder Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) The release of this set is a big suprise - and welcome ! Good news for Mosaic I think as it should sell nicely - and good news for us as it helps to keep Mosaic in a healthy business position. I will definitely get this set. Those original Atlantic LPs can often be compromised. Several that I have (in particular an original 'The Comedy') have more surface noise than I would like so replacing with a CD set won't go amiss. I'm also missing quite a few of these sessions. The tasteful black & white Mosaic booklet format sans cover art comes in useful as they won't have to print the cover of 'Plastic Dreams'. (didn't see that one in the list - but presumably it would be included?) Edited January 20, 2011 by sidewinder Quote
kh1958 Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 The release of this set is a big suprise - and welcome ! Good news for Mosaic I think as it should sell nicely - and good news for us as it helps to keep Mosaic in a healthy business position. I will definitely get this set. Those original Atlantic LPs can often be compromised. Several that I have (in particular an original 'The Comedy') have more surface noise than I would like so replacing with a CD set won't go amiss. I'm also missing quite a few of these sessions. The tasteful black & white Mosaic booklet format sans cover art comes in useful as they won't have to print the cover of 'Plastic Dreams'. (didn't see that one in the list - but presumably it would be included?) Plastic Dreams is after 1964, I think. Quote
golfcrazy1984 Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 I'll be very happy if they choose Malcolm Addey to master this set. I'd prefer him to Steve Hoffman. Ultimately, I know I won't be able to resist ordering this set, even though I have much of the music on cd, and a lot of them recently as well. That would be great if Malcolm Addey remastered this set. It would guarantee an awesome listening experience. Who has Mosaic gotten to remaster Atlantic sets in the past? Quote
Ron S Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 I'll be very happy if they choose Malcolm Addey to master this set. I'd prefer him to Steve Hoffman. Ultimately, I know I won't be able to resist ordering this set, even though I have much of the music on cd, and a lot of them recently as well. Same here. I went on an MJQ buying spree a couple of years ago--pretty much anything that was in print. Oh well. Quote
Ron S Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 And by the way (this is directed to everyone, not just Lon), as noted on the rear of the jewel cases, the relatively recent Collectables issues of MJQ Atlantics have actually been mastered by Rhino (presumably from original sources), and sound very good to my ears. Quote
JSngry Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 The release of this set is a big suprise - and welcome ! Good news for Mosaic I think as it should sell nicely - and good news for us as it helps to keep Mosaic in a healthy business position. I will definitely get this set. Those original Atlantic LPs can often be compromised. Several that I have (in particular an original 'The Comedy') have more surface noise than I would like so replacing with a CD set won't go amiss. I'm also missing quite a few of these sessions. The tasteful black & white Mosaic booklet format sans cover art comes in useful as they won't have to print the cover of 'Plastic Dreams'. (didn't see that one in the list - but presumably it would be included?) Plastic Dreams is after 1964, I think. Early 70s, actually. Their first after returning from Apple, iirc? Quote
John Tapscott Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) The MJQ has really grown on me over the years. I really enjoy their music, and though I have several of the LP's, I will be getting this set. Really looking forward to it. I think this is an excellent choice for a Mosaic set. Edited January 20, 2011 by John Tapscott Quote
Bill B Posted January 20, 2011 Report Posted January 20, 2011 I wonder whether they will include both the mono and stereo takes of some titles the MJQ re-recorded - e.g. Fontessa and The Comedy differ in both issues. Is this list complete? Fontessa One Never Knows At Music Inn Vol. 1 & 2 * No Sun in Venice European Concert Vol. 1 & 2 * MJQ & Orchestra Pyramid Third Steam Music The Comedy Lonely Woman A Quartet is a Quartet is a Quartet The Sherrif Porgy and Bess Jazz Dialogue Collaboration (w. Laurindo Almeida) Blues At Carnegie Hall * Live At The Lighthouse * * are live recordings that will not be included. Jazz Dialogue and 1/2 of Quartet is a Quartet will not be included. No Sun in Venice is a.k.a One Never Knows Quote
mikeweil Posted January 27, 2011 Report Posted January 27, 2011 Jazz Dialogue and 1/2 of Quartet is a Quartet will not be included. No Sun in Venice is a.k.a One Never Knows Not sure about the jazz Dialogue - why shouldn't they include this? You're correct about the others. Michael Cuscuna told me some alternates were stored at the end of the LP master tapes, that's how they survived. So far he found alternates of Bluesology and Woody'n'You from the Fontessa sessions. Plastic Dreams is after 1964, I think. Early 70s, actually. Their first after returning from Apple, iirc? Yessir - and it's the funkiest album they ever did. John Lewis' comping on the first two tracks would have served the James Brown horn section perfectly. Quote
king ubu Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 Plastic Dreams is after 1964, I think. Early 70s, actually. Their first after returning from Apple, iirc? Yessir - and it's the funkiest album they ever did. John Lewis' comping on the first two tracks would have served the James Brown horn section perfectly. Thou sayeth thus that "Plastic Dream" is worth hearing? Just passed it by in a local sale this week... will return Saturday to check if it's still around! Quote
sidewinder Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Thou sayeth thus that "Plastic Dream" is worth hearing? Just passed it by in a local sale this week... will return Saturday to check if it's still around! I passed on the vinyl of it a while back. It was near mint too. Hardly had the nerve to hand it over to the pretty female cashier ! Like being a schoolboy and buying a copy of Penthouse.. Edited January 28, 2011 by sidewinder Quote
king ubu Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Thou sayeth thus that "Plastic Dream" is worth hearing? Just passed it by in a local sale this week... will return Saturday to check if it's still around! I passed on the vinyl of it a while back. It was near mint too. Hardly had the nerve to hand it over to the pretty female cashier ! Like being a schoolboy and buying a copy of Penthouse.. Yeah, I could have just bought it on yinyl as well, but the CD has about three bonus tracks... Edited January 28, 2011 by king ubu Quote
Face of the Bass Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 As far as Mosaic sets go, this one is okay but I really wish they had done the Sam Rivers set first. Quote
Steve Gray Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 I wonder whether they will include both the mono and stereo takes of some titles the MJQ re-recorded - e.g. Fontessa and The Comedy differ in both issues. Is this list complete? Fontessa One Never Knows At Music Inn Vol. 1 & 2 * No Sun in Venice European Concert Vol. 1 & 2 * MJQ & Orchestra Pyramid Third Steam Music The Comedy Lonely Woman A Quartet is a Quartet is a Quartet The Sherrif Porgy and Bess Jazz Dialogue Collaboration (w. Laurindo Almeida) Blues At Carnegie Hall * Live At The Lighthouse * * are live recordings that will not be included. Jazz Dialogue and 1/2 of Quartet is a Quartet will not be included. No Sun in Venice is a.k.a One Never Knows Why won't the MJQ tracks on 'A quartet is a quartet' be on the set? They were recorded in 1963. Quote
miles65 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 I wonder whether they will include both the mono and stereo takes of some titles the MJQ re-recorded - e.g. Fontessa and The Comedy differ in both issues. Is this list complete? Fontessa One Never Knows At Music Inn Vol. 1 & 2 * No Sun in Venice European Concert Vol. 1 & 2 * MJQ & Orchestra Pyramid Third Steam Music The Comedy Lonely Woman A Quartet is a Quartet is a Quartet The Sherrif Porgy and Bess Jazz Dialogue Collaboration (w. Laurindo Almeida) Blues At Carnegie Hall * Live At The Lighthouse * * are live recordings that will not be included. Jazz Dialogue and 1/2 of Quartet is a Quartet will not be included. No Sun in Venice is a.k.a One Never Knows Why won't the MJQ tracks on 'A quartet is a quartet' be on the set? They were recorded in 1963. Part of that album is by other quartets. No MJQ so no need to include them. Quote
Steve Gray Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 I wonder whether they will include both the mono and stereo takes of some titles the MJQ re-recorded - e.g. Fontessa and The Comedy differ in both issues. Is this list complete? Fontessa One Never Knows At Music Inn Vol. 1 & 2 * No Sun in Venice European Concert Vol. 1 & 2 * MJQ & Orchestra Pyramid Third Steam Music The Comedy Lonely Woman A Quartet is a Quartet is a Quartet The Sherrif Porgy and Bess Jazz Dialogue Collaboration (w. Laurindo Almeida) Blues At Carnegie Hall * Live At The Lighthouse * * are live recordings that will not be included. Jazz Dialogue and 1/2 of Quartet is a Quartet will not be included. No Sun in Venice is a.k.a One Never Knows Why won't the MJQ tracks on 'A quartet is a quartet' be on the set? They were recorded in 1963. Part of that album is by other quartets. No MJQ so no need to include them. Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. One side of the LP, 4 tracks, are by he MJQ. Why wouldn't they be included. I don't expect the tracks by the Quartetto de Milano and the Hungarian Gypsy Quartet to be included but I do expect the tracks by the MJQ to be included. Quote
medjuck Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) I just checked and I have no MJQ on Atlantic but do I really want this much? Is there enough variation from album to album to make this worthwhile? Edited January 28, 2011 by medjuck Quote
miles65 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 Jazz Dialogue and 1/2 of Quartet is a Quartet will not be included. No Sun in Venice is a.k.a One Never Knows Why won't the MJQ tracks on 'A quartet is a quartet' be on the set? They were recorded in 1963. Part of that album is by other quartets. No MJQ so no need to include them. Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. One side of the LP, 4 tracks, are by he MJQ. Why wouldn't they be included. I don't expect the tracks by the Quartetto de Milano and the Hungarian Gypsy Quartet to be included but I do expect the tracks by the MJQ to be included. You probably misread the original statement it says "...1/2 of Quartet is a Quartet will not be included." I think that means the MJQ 1/2 will be included. Sorry if my answer led to confusion. Quote
tranemonk Posted January 28, 2011 Report Posted January 28, 2011 Good question... Those of who had the Albums/cd's... ????? I just checked and I have no MJQ on Atlantic but do I really want this much? Is there enough variation from album to album to make this worthwhile? Quote
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