Money for nothing and dumbasses for free

[Aggie87]

I don't get it - if I understand what you're saying, you're ok with it in this song, in the context it's in.

You just are in favor of censorship (like the Canadian ban) so the word can't be heard?

Are you in favor of banning books like Huckleberry Finn so certain words can't be read, either?

[JSngry]

The world and its language is evolving. There is a world where not all homosexuals are faggots, nor are all faggots homosexuals. In this world, "faggott" is a character/personality slur, not a slur against sexual orientation. It's a knock against anybody who just revels in being fragilely self-absorbed. Plenty of people like that, and where they put their genitals for sexual satisfaction has nothing to do with it. Nothing.

I get that, and agree. Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, and Chris Rock have also said the similar things about not all African Americans being... ...but it's impossible to have public broadcast standards that pay any attention to any of this.

That's because too much of the "public" are dishonest pussies (in the non-Vaginal-Human sense of the word), or if you prefer, dicks (in the non-Penil Human sense of the word). They lie to themselves, they lie about themselves, they think they're all polite and decent and shit, and....that's just bullshit. Things like enforced "decency", do nothing to encourage people to confront & acknowledge the lies they tell themselves and each other about themselves and about each other.

You can't self-govern what you first do not acknowledge. People who do not or cannot accept the full responsibility of self-governance of character are not people I would in any way be trying to "protect".

[JSngry]

Seriously, the term is used AS A SLUR in the original song (by the character in that verse). How does this get a pass (in terms of broadcasting the term), and similar uses of other slurs are different (deemed not acceptable). I do not see the difference.

Because , in the context of the original song, it is not clearly/specifically a slur against sexual orientation. Even then, the word, onlike other gay-specific slurs, had connotations of character that were not accustory of sexual orientation. Just like "act like a man" or "don't be a sissy" refer to quality of character, not sexual orientation, so does - and has - "faggot".

It gets blurry with the latter, though, because it is also a word that does have orientation-specific slurdom attached to it. But given the context - a song about some blue-collar know-nothings who would, if given the chance, trade places with that "faggot" who got the airplane, the money, and the hot chicks (when was Prince NOT surrounded by hot chicks?, and besides how is a guy with hot chicks a faggot in the homosexual sense?), it's pretty clear to me that there's no "message of hate" in the song, and that the word is being used in an "artful" sense.

And truthfully, I've always thought that the word in that song was used to mock those who were speaking it.

[Rooster_Ties]

I don't get it - if I understand what you're saying, you're ok with it in this song, in the context it's in.

You just are in favor of censorship (like the Canadian ban) so the word can't be heard?

Are you in favor of banning books like Huckleberry Finn so certain words can't be read, either?

I'm not proposing a ban on anything, no book, no song. Market place of ideas, baby!

I *am* in favor of the Canadian FCC banning the use of that word (on the radio), which is essentially what they've done -- which allows the song to be played if the offending word is fuzzled out (or dropped, if the multi-tracks are still available), or play the single edit (lots of solutions there, take your pick).

Now, without really tying to, I have also explored what I do think about the song, more than I had ever intended or expected (and frankly I wasn't sure what I thought going into this). Now those explorations have taken some interesting turns here, haven't they. Those HAVEN'T been to suggest that ANYTHING be banned or rewritten.

[Rooster_Ties]

Seriously, the term is used AS A SLUR in the original song (by the character in that verse). How does this get a pass (in terms of broadcasting the term), and similar uses of other slurs are different (deemed not acceptable). I do not see the difference.

Because , in the context of the original song, it is not clearly/specifically a slur against sexual orientation. Even then, the word, onlike other gay-specific slurs, had connotations of character that were not accustory of sexual orientation. Just like "act like a man" or "don't be a sissy" refer to quality of character, not sexual orientation, so does - and has - "faggot".

It gets blurry with the latter, though, because it is also a word that does have orientation-specific slurdom attached to it. But given the context - a song about some blue-collar know-nothings who would, if given the chance, trade places with that "faggot" who got the airplane, the money, and the hot chicks (when was Prince NOT surrounded by hot chicks?, and besides how is a guy with hot chicks a faggot in the homosexual sense?), it's pretty clear to me that there's no "message of hate" in the song, and that the word is being used in an "artful" sense.

And truthfully, I've always thought that the word in that song was used to mock those who were speaking it.

I think I agree with almost every bit of that, Jim (and thank you for that). But I would give more credence to your own argument that the word does have an "orientatio-specific slurdom attached to it". That's really what I was trying to get at.

Your expert argument about the meaning of the song (which, frankly, I never saw as anything more than a song about some guys bitching about fags on MTV), has probably walked me back from the precipice -- but please do consider that words do have meaning - often a meaning FAR removed from the context in which they're in (even while still in that very context). And that pertains specifically to this whole "broadcast the word, or not" question.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Rooster_Ties

[JSngry]

-- but please do consider that words do have meaning - often a meaning FAR removed from the context in which they're in (even while still in that very context).

Sorry, but failure to contexualize content is either a failure of the content-provider to deliver focused intent, or, at least just as likely, a failure of the consumer to pay attention to anything other than what they already know, want to know, or will ever allow themselves to know.

I'm well aware that words have meaning, and I'm well aware that words have context that define that meaning, and I'm just as well aware that giving the first construct priority over the second is one of the bigger impedements to progress our society faces. So forgive me if I don't get particualrly enthused about actions that ultimately reinforce the problem rather than move it along.

Discarding words & discouraging behaviors in and of themselves does nothing to change emotions, which, is ultimately where real, lasting change takes place. If it did, things would be a lot better now than they are.

[.:.impossible]

You are one of the 90% that didn't understand the meaning of the song.

I was just a kid and it was very straight-forward to me what it was about. In fact, I found it confusing that it was on MTV and a radio hit, spiteful as it seemed to be.

Same bit:

[Rooster_Ties]

I never thought the use in the song was ONLY literal (homo), but NOR did I ever think the use was ONLY metaphoric (sissy). It's always been open to question (and it could always be some of both).

Which, as Jim said, has to do with the dual-nature of term. I mean, growing up, the way the word was tossed around, it's not like bullies cared which. Don't fit perfectly into their definition of "tough"? - you're a homo (a term I haven't thought of in years). Or actually attracted to other guys? - you're a homo. They didn't care, it works great either way!!. The perfect all-purpose slur. 'Faggot' was the sharpest of the various spears that could be thrown at non-"Alpha Male" boys/teens, from the 'sissy/homo/fag' arsenal.

It's a pretty ugly word, frankly. It's surprising a song with it in the lyrics (not once, but THREE times! -- that's especially where I cry "bad poetry!!) ever was a big hit at all, let alone number #1. Catchy damn thing it is, though.

Discarding words & discouraging behaviors in and of themselves does nothing to change emotions, which, is ultimately where real, lasting change takes place. If it did, things would be a lot better now than they are.

We probably agree on this point. Keeping words off the radio isn't going to change anyone who needs changing.

But I think there are generational implications, though, in terms of defining what society -"officially"- -"broadcasts"- as being acceptable. (Meant both of those words metaphorically there, but ironically, this is all about what 'officials' allow to be actually 'broadcast'.)

In terms of real change in any particular CURRENT generation, you're 100% right Jim.

Some kinds of progress only happens through generational change, and I think the overall notion of "policing the airwaves" is driven at that aim.

The irony in all this, of course, is that really NONE of this matters any more -- cuz kids don't listen to shit on the radio any more (and never will again), and the horse done left the barn on any "broadcast media" having much influence on an entire generation -- so my arguments here are clearly rhetorical at best, in any real sense.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Rooster_Ties

[JSngry]

'Faggot' was the sharpest of the various spears that could be thrown at non-"Alpha Male" boys/teens, from the 'sissy/homo/fag' arsenal.

Gee, if that was the sharpest spear your group had, y'all must've been a bunch of....

I mean, really!

[.:.impossible]

I'm tempted.

[Rooster_Ties]

Gee, if that was the sharpest spear your group had, y'all must've been a bunch of....

Well, it's the sharpest of the standardized options. Custom work will always develop something even more lethal.

[Dan Gould]

Its too bad Tom didn't post the rest of the lyrics:

I shoulda learned to play the guitar

I shoulda learned to play them drums

Look at that mama, she got it stickin' in the camera

Man we could have some

And he's up there, what's that? Hawaiian¹ noises?

Bangin' on the bongoes like a chimpanzee²

That ain't workin' that's the way you do it

Get your money for nothin' get your chicks for free

¹ Asian-Pacific Islander is a recognized racial category. Obviously that word might be just as offensive as the one under discussion.

² In 1983, Howard Cosell was denounced as a racist for saying of a black receiver on Monday Night Football "That little monkey gets loose, doesn't he?" He left MNF after that season, his reputation tarnished even though he had been a supporter of Civil Rights and a defender of Muhammad Ali. Is there much difference between "chimpanzee" and "monkey" Clearly humans shouldn't be compared to primates. And God help us if the primates ever get organized.

Really, to be safe, the whole appalling song should have been banned 25 years ago, but since its taken this long, its clearly time to update that radio-edit Tom prefers.

[Tom 1960]

Interesting to come across this thread since a friend and I were just commenting the other day about the Ten Years After song "I'd Love To Change The World". Words from the opening verse:

Everywhere is freaks and hairies

Dykes and fairies, tell me where is sanity

His comments were pretty much aligned with some of the posters here, found it somewhat offensive. Any issues with this? Ban worthy? I also want to add this link where Knoffler takes on the controversial word in the song "Money For Nothing". Scroll down half way:

Money For Nothing

Edited January 16, 2011 by Tom 1960