Miles - Four

[Alexander Hawkins]

Quick, fairly trivial, question...it's not occurred to me before, but is Miles' 'Four' based on another set of changes? It wouldn't bother me, but I'm teaching it in an analysis class, and playing through it earlier, the changes struck me as *really* familiar in a way they hadn't before...but I can't for the life of me put my finger on it!

Am I missing something?!?

Thanks in advance!

[JSngry]

The harmonic math of the first part is largely that of the first part of the A-section to "The Nearness Of You".

The end is a verbatim(?) quote of the tag/coda to "Groovin' High", which is also the same as the last phrase to "If You Could See Me Now", although which one of those really came first, I don't know. Don't think you can male that estimation just on recording dates/

Oh, and fwiw - it's likely an Eddie Vinson tune, not a Miles one.

[Alexander Hawkins]

Thanks Jim - yeah, I was thinking in that Groovin' High/Whispering sort of orbit, although it's not quite melodically or harmonically the same as either, I don't think...

I hear what you're suggesting about '...Nearness', although I'm not sure I agree...I think TNOY starts on chord I, then goes ii-V into the subdominant, whereas Four starts on the I, and then goes ii-V in the key a tone lower (in Miles' key, Eb / Ebmi Ab7 Db)...

Thanks for the reminder about that Vinson thing...had forgotten that!

[JSngry]

I hear what you're suggesting about '...Nearness', although I'm not sure I agree...I think TNOY starts on chord I, then goes ii-V into the subdominant, whereas Four starts on the I, and then goes ii-V in the key a tone lower (in Miles' key, Eb / Ebmi Ab7 Db)...

Yeah, that's right. Too many lounge gigs lately, not enough bebop (not that there's that much difference anymore, at least in these parts...)...those guys like to play "Four" as a background riff to TNOY"....and it works well enough.

But you are absolutely correct about the proper "Four " changes.

[AllenLowe]

strangely enough (and please don't ask me to locate it), I have also heard that "If You Could See Me Now" ending chord progression on a 1942 Jimmy Dorsey big band recording of an unrelated song. It's on a CDR somewhere in my basement, probably a vocal of some kind, also probably 1942, in the pre-bop era (so somebody got it from somebody).

[Alexander Hawkins]

Too many lounge gigs lately, not enough bebop (not that there's that much difference anymore, at least in these parts...)...

not sure whether that means cool lounge gigs, or slightly dodgy bop ones

[JSngry]

Would Dizzy - or Dameron - have been writing for JD as early as 1942? I know there was some interaction between them, just not sure if it was that early.

Too many lounge gigs lately, not enough bebop (not that there's that much difference anymore, at least in these parts...)...

not sure whether that means cool lounge gigs, or slightly dodgy bop ones

You know, I've been doing them for a while now, & I'm still not sure myself...it kinda varies from night to night and often hinges on who stays how sober for how long ...

[AllenLowe]

Dizzy did write some early arrangements for Dorsey, and may even have sat in on a recording, IIRC. But I don't know the exact year (also, didn't the recording ban fall about then?). And Dameron was writing for that KC band even before then (can't think of the name right now; A La Bridges may have been one song he did for them; also had the pre-bop trombonist named Beckett). So yes, definitely, lots of interaction.

(just found it - Harlan Leonard).

[jazztrain]

Allen:

You thinking of Harlan Leonard? Never mind, didn't see your parenthetical addition.

The recording ban started at midnight of July 31, 1942.

Edited January 10, 2011 by jazztrain

[medjuck]

I've read something that explained the relationship between the Groovin High coda and If You Could See me Now but can't remember where or what exactly it said. Not very helpful I now but at least the information is out there.