well, it's true, even though everybody said it wasn't - Roy H

[AllenLowe]

well, you'll see - some months ago I reported here that a friend reported to me that they thought Roy Haynes' playing, as a leader and legend, had gotten too busy and obtrusive - which statement was met here by a chorus of denials and downright hostility - so tonight I decided to check out some Haynes clips - and, by gumbo, my friend was right - this one had me wanting to yell at the screen:

too too too too too too much drums - accent here, bash it there, oy veh, let the band play without so much punctuation, Roy -

[Alexander]

It IS his fuckin' band...

Edited December 22, 2010 by Alexander

[AllenLowe]

well yeah, and it was Mussolini's Italy. Still, we had to listen to it.

[Stereojack]

Allen, we've parted ways on opinions in the past, but I'm with you here. Loved Roy's playing in the 50's & 60's, but since the 70's he's way over the top, at least to my ears.

[Dan Gould]

Don't think he's too obtrusive and if he is, how much is the miking/mixing? Two microphones (at least) on the drum set, and mixed way up, too.

As far as I am concerned, Roy can play however he damn well feels.

Was that Downtown Julie Brown doing the interview? What a waste, asking questions like she would any flash-in-the-pan pop star, without a clue in her fucking head who she is talking to.

[Elissa]

Yeah you guys have lost me here. Roy Haynes is fucking off the charts and last I saw him he was making the Dizzy Club swing so hard I thought it might launch right out over Central Park, and his playing was totally minimal! They (with Jaleel Shaw) played a version of My Heart Belongs to Daddy that I will never forget, and Steve Reich couldn't have played less

[paul secor]

I've never heard Roy Haynes play live, so I can't make a judgement. As far as the clip goes - outdoor concert, YouTube sound and, as Dan noted, questionable miking and mixing - I still can't judge.

[AllenLowe]

yeah but the hits were wrong, in the wrong place at the wrong time

[JSngry]

yeah but the hits were wrong, in the wrong place at the wrong time

I don't know what that means.

[AllenLowe]

wrong accents and little emphases - too intrusive

[JSngry]

I still don't know what that means, especially "wrong accents". Can you provide examples, timing points in the video?

I'll tell you what I do hear, and that's a touch of reflex lag. But hell the cat's 85, so that's pretty much to be expected. That doesn't make it "wrong"...

As far as "too intrusive", I think that's purely a matter of taste. Hell, I have no compunctions whatsoever about killing (yeah, as in felonious behavior) a drummer who comes to the stand unprepared to deal. So Mr. Haynes' level of engagement in the music at hand sounds and feels perfectly acceptable to me. Enjoyable, even.

Besides, at no point is he louder than the altoist. And listen to the mike levels come up behind the piano solo - what you're hearing is obviously all miked, so...factor volume considerations accordingly. The bassist is getting screwed form jump, in fact, but that ain't Roy's fault.

If Roy Haynes wants to lead the dance, let Roy Haynes lead the dance. Not everybody can, or should, but Roy Haynes ain't one of those.

[Justin V]

I saw him twice in the last year and a half, with his FOY band (w/ David Kikoski) and Chick Corea's Freedom Band. He killed both times. He drove the hell out of both bands, but was more active with his own band. His reflexes were up to snuff both times. I dug it. I was heartbroken when I couldn't afford to see him at the last Detroit Jazz Fest.

[Alexander]

yeah but the hits were wrong, in the wrong place at the wrong time

Too many notes...

[mikeweil]

That's an old story - drummers are accused of being too loud or obtrusive from the beginning - may be a non-drummer's problem. I think drums are too low in the mix 90% of the time on recordings.

It's Roy's band, so he can play as much as he wants. If a drummer plays too much for my ears and taste, which happens quite often, I simply put on something else - it's as simple as that.

[AllenLowe]

well, true, there is freedom of choice, but as for me -

if there's one child starving in the world, one unjustly imprisoned victim of political injustice, one lonely women made homeless by domestic abuse, and ONE drummer who is too loud - well, I just cannot rest until things are made right -

-Allen "Mother Theresa" Lowe

[Leeway]

I hear nothing egregious in this clip. I think some allowance has to be made for the band playing outdoors in downtown Manhattan--buses driving by, traffic noise, etc--so Roy may have been trying to get a liitle bit "big" to make sure he was coming across. Damn, I hope I'm still alive and listening to jazz at 85, let alone fronting a jazz band.

[A Lark Ascending]

Damn, I hope I'm still alive and listening to jazz at 85...

Or grumbling about it!

[AllenLowe]

sorry, when I'm 85 I'll be working with orphans in the slums of Calcutta.

[JSngry]

sorry, when I'm 85 I'll be working with orphans in the slums of Calcutta.

Good call - they'll be too weak to play too loud.

[Aggie87]

if there's one child starving in the world, one unjustly imprisoned victim of political injustice, one lonely women made homeless by domestic abuse, and ONE drummer who is too loud - well, I just cannot rest until things are made right -

Wherever there is injustice, you will find us! Wherever there is suffering, we'll be there! Wherever liberty is threatened, you will find... The Three Amigos!!

[Swinging Swede]

Wow, he sure doesn't look like 81 in that video. And to think that his recording career started with Luis Russell's big band in the mid-40s...