Captain Beefheart / Don Van Vliet RIP

[Teasing the Korean]

That is one brilliant list.

I wonder what he would say to a piano player.

RIP Cap. You are amazing.

[mjzee]

From tomorrow's WSJ, an appreciation by Gary Lucas:

O Captain! My Captain Beefheart

[Hot Ptah]

I find it very interesting that when some jazz musicians have died, some members of the board have provided their negative impressions of them.

No one has done so for Captain Beefheart, despite detailed books written by his sidemen John French and Bill Harkelroad which are harrowing accounts of Beefheart's cruelty.

So recently deceased jazz artists have their faults discussed at length, while a rock guy gets a free pass. I just find it interesting.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Hot Ptah

[clifford_thornton]

You know, the first time I interviewed Bill Dixon, back in 2004 or so, I also spoke to some musicians that had formerly worked with him. To put it mildly, none of them thought he was an "easy" guy to work with, but they were all glad they had the experience. I suspect the same is true with the (arguably more eccentric) Beefheart.

[ATR]

Clear Spot must have been playing non-stop in my friends' dorm room for months after it came out, even though Maury said it was a sell-out and oddly commercial compared to Safe As Milk, which at the time I had never heard. The guy was on to something. He even plugged Ornette's Science FIction album the first time I saw him live, and it wasn't on 'his' label. He had a way with words, and the musical onomatopoeia of tunes like Click Clack as well as his inspired use of the vibraphone in his band really got my attention. I hear he was difficult, but he presented himself as a gentle person trying to avoid being damaged by a hostile world. I can identify with that.

[Д.Д.]

I find it very interesting that when some jazz musicians have died, some members of the board have provided their negative impressions of them.

No one has done so for Captain Beefheart, despite detailed books written by his sidemen John French and Bill Harkelroad which are harrowing accounts of Beefheart's cruelty.

So recently deceased jazz artists have their faults discussed at length, while a rock guy gets a free pass. I just find it interesting.

I think the dark sides of Van Vliet's personality have been discussed in the dedicated Captain Beefheart thread, probably no need to repeat it here.

I wonder if "Lick My Decals Off, Baby" will get reissued now. Beefheart's best, IMHO.

I remember finding it interesting that Anthony Braxton dedicated one of his compositions to "master musician and composer" Don Van Vliet.

[rostasi]

I'd like to see the Zappa estate let go of the original "Bat Chain Puller" sessions.

Most of the tunes have been released on the follow-up "proper" LPs

(and "Odd Jobs" on the "Grow Fins" collection) , but there are still some tunes:

"Seam Crooked Sam," a slower version of "Flavor Bud Living" (a hella guitar part),

and the original version of "Brickbats" that would be nice to hear cleaned-up and "official"

instead of the boot that's being passed around out in the Interlands.

[7/4]

I'd like to see the Zappa estate let go of the original "Bat Chain Puller" sessions.

Most of the tunes have been released on the follow-up "proper" LPs

(and "Odd Jobs" on the "Grow Fins" collection) , but there are still some tunes:

"Seam Crooked Sam," a slower version of "Flavor Bud Living" (a hella guitar part),

and the original version of "Brickbats" that would be nice to hear cleaned-up and "official"

instead of the boot that's being passed around out in the Interlands.

Rumor is that Gail was gonna release it in 2011 anyway for Don's 70th birthday.

[danasgoodstuff]

I find it very interesting that when some jazz musicians have died, some members of the board have provided their negative impressions of them.

No one has done so for Captain Beefheart, despite detailed books written by his sidemen John French and Bill Harkelroad which are harrowing accounts of Beefheart's cruelty.

So recently deceased jazz artists have their faults discussed at length, while a rock guy gets a free pass. I just find it interesting.

I will resist the temptation to go full on rude here and put it as politely as I can: IMHO talking about Capt Beefheart as a "rock guy" in this, or any other, context is largely unhelpful/meaningless. If there is any comparison to be drawn, how 'bout why was the 'rock world' more open to this particular difficult eccentric than the 'jazz world' or the 'blues world'... My one suggestion re the 'why' posited above is it's about context - since this is a 'jazz board' it might be assumed that we already know the're great, not so much outsiders - but all this putting people and (non)things in boxes is making my head and hands hurt...

[AmirBagachelles]

CB (and the Magic Band) produced unique, powerful art. The rock context seems incidental to me.

[skeith]

I find it very interesting that when some jazz musicians have died, some members of the board have provided their negative impressions of them.

No one has done so for Captain Beefheart, despite detailed books written by his sidemen John French and Bill Harkelroad which are harrowing accounts of Beefheart's cruelty.

So recently deceased jazz artists have their faults discussed at length, while a rock guy gets a free pass. I just find it interesting.

Did you see B. Goren's tribute thread to John Lennon?? - no free pass there.

[7/4]

I find it very interesting that when some jazz musicians have died, some members of the board have provided their negative impressions of them.

No one has done so for Captain Beefheart, despite detailed books written by his sidemen John French and Bill Harkelroad which are harrowing accounts of Beefheart's cruelty.

So recently deceased jazz artists have their faults discussed at length, while a rock guy gets a free pass. I just find it interesting.

Did you see B. Goren's tribute thread to John Lennon?? - no free pass there.

John Lennon is no Capt. Beefheart.

[JSngry]

Yeah, John Lennon's been dead. It's ok to laugh now.

No matter - they both changed my life in some pretty fundamental ways, each in their own time, each in their own way, and being frequent failures as human beings (and really, is that not a redundancy?) is a wholly separate relevancy.

[mjzee]

Captain Beefheart - A Rock Critic Fable

The Day Captain Beefheart Outsold the Beatles, the Stones and Pink Floyd

[Hot Ptah]

I find it very interesting that when some jazz musicians have died, some members of the board have provided their negative impressions of them.

No one has done so for Captain Beefheart, despite detailed books written by his sidemen John French and Bill Harkelroad which are harrowing accounts of Beefheart's cruelty.

So recently deceased jazz artists have their faults discussed at length, while a rock guy gets a free pass. I just find it interesting.

I will resist the temptation to go full on rude here and put it as politely as I can: IMHO talking about Capt Beefheart as a "rock guy" in this, or any other, context is largely unhelpful/meaningless. If there is any comparison to be drawn, how 'bout why was the 'rock world' more open to this particular difficult eccentric than the 'jazz world' or the 'blues world'... My one suggestion re the 'why' posited above is it's about context - since this is a 'jazz board' it might be assumed that we already know the're great, not so much outsiders - but all this putting people and (non)things in boxes is making my head and hands hurt...

I did not mean to put him into a rock box. My "rock" comment was unnecessary to the point I was making and I should have deleted it. I have enjoyed Beefheart's music for almost 40 years. I bought Clear Spot the day it came out, with the clear plastic LP cover. I have Beefheart bootlegs. My love for his music is way up there with anyone's.

My comment was really a comment about this community. In the past, when certain jazz musicians died, some members went out of their way to make repeated negative comments about them, with the justification stated that it was necessary to make the record accurate, to the point where it became unpleasant for some other members. But then when Captain Beefheart dies, every comment is glowingly positive, gushing even. I just found it very odd. If no one else does, then it's a weird quirk of mine, and can be quickly forgotten.

[jostber]

I find it very interesting that when some jazz musicians have died, some members of the board have provided their negative impressions of them.

No one has done so for Captain Beefheart, despite detailed books written by his sidemen John French and Bill Harkelroad which are harrowing accounts of Beefheart's cruelty.

So recently deceased jazz artists have their faults discussed at length, while a rock guy gets a free pass. I just find it interesting.

I think the dark sides of Van Vliet's personality have been discussed in the dedicated Captain Beefheart thread, probably no need to repeat it here.

I wonder if "Lick My Decals Off, Baby" will get reissued now. Beefheart's best, IMHO.

I remember finding it interesting that Anthony Braxton dedicated one of his compositions to "master musician and composer" Don Van Vliet.

"Lick My Decals" was reissued on vinyl in 2005 and is still available:

http://www.soundstagedirect.com/Captain-Beefheart-Lick-My-Decals-Off-Baby-REP-6420.shtml

[danasgoodstuff]

I find it very interesting that when some jazz musicians have died, some members of the board have provided their negative impressions of them.

No one has done so for Captain Beefheart, despite detailed books written by his sidemen John French and Bill Harkelroad which are harrowing accounts of Beefheart's cruelty.

So recently deceased jazz artists have their faults discussed at length, while a rock guy gets a free pass. I just find it interesting.

I will resist the temptation to go full on rude here and put it as politely as I can: IMHO talking about Capt Beefheart as a "rock guy" in this, or any other, context is largely unhelpful/meaningless. If there is any comparison to be drawn, how 'bout why was the 'rock world' more open to this particular difficult eccentric than the 'jazz world' or the 'blues world'... My one suggestion re the 'why' posited above is it's about context - since this is a 'jazz board' it might be assumed that we already know the're great, not so much outsiders - but all this putting people and (non)things in boxes is making my head and hands hurt...

I did not mean to put him into a rock box. My "rock" comment was unnecessary to the point I was making and I should have deleted it. I have enjoyed Beefheart's music for almost 40 years. I bought Clear Spot the day it came out, with the clear plastic LP cover. I have Beefheart bootlegs. My love for his music is way up there with anyone's.

My comment was really a comment about this community. In the past, when certain jazz musicians died, some members went out of their way to make repeated negative comments about them, with the justification stated that it was necessary to make the record accurate, to the point where it became unpleasant for some other members. But then when Captain Beefheart dies, every comment is glowingly positive, gushing even. I just found it very odd. If no one else does, then it's a weird quirk of mine, and can be quickly forgotten.

Very well then, sorry if I went off on a tangent of my own...

[mjzee]

I'd like to see the Zappa estate let go of the original "Bat Chain Puller" sessions.

Most of the tunes have been released on the follow-up "proper" LPs

(and "Odd Jobs" on the "Grow Fins" collection) , but there are still some tunes:

"Seam Crooked Sam," a slower version of "Flavor Bud Living" (a hella guitar part),

and the original version of "Brickbats" that would be nice to hear cleaned-up and "official"

instead of the boot that's being passed around out in the Interlands.

Rumor is that Gail was gonna release it in 2011 anyway for Don's 70th birthday.

A year late, but looks like it's gonna happen:

Beefheart’s original Bat Chain Puller to be released on CD

[Chalupa]

[mjzee]

Thanks for reviving this thread. It seems the original Bat Chain Puller can now be ordered at the Barfko site. (What an annoying site, by the way...try to figure out what's on the discs they're selling!)

[romualdo]

Just got the new Zappa released Bat Chain Puller CD & the sonics just blow away any of the previous releases

This is a must have for any Van Vliet fan & has to be a strong contender for the "Rock" reissue of the year

There are three extra tracks (including Hobo-ism) not from the same sessions (unknown date & musicians)

[StarThrower]

If Obama had the balls to be avant garde, he'd be a martyr by now.

[mjzee]

Just got the new Zappa released Bat Chain Puller CD & the sonics just blow away any of the previous releases

This is a must have for any Van Vliet fan & has to be a strong contender for the "Rock" reissue of the year

There are three extra tracks (including Hobo-ism) not from the same sessions (unknown date & musicians)

I totally agree. Previously discussed here.

[romualdo]

Just got the new Zappa released Bat Chain Puller CD & the sonics just blow away any of the previous releases

This is a must have for any Van Vliet fan & has to be a strong contender for the "Rock" reissue of the year

There are three extra tracks (including Hobo-ism) not from the same sessions (unknown date & musicians)

I totally agree. Previously discussed here.

Thanks - I thought this had been discussed previously

This is a recurrent problem I have with the site - searching for old threads - I usually do this via Google & add organissimo into the criteria (other members have also recommended this technique)

I did the search & got this thread

Maybe the two should be merged?

[mjzee]

Yeah, I couldn't find the original thread myself when I went to reply to your post. I had to use Google Search.