Secrets of the BN vaults

[JSngry]

Oh...that must be why the tomatoes stopped growing.

Damn you, Chuck Nessa, you got the garden and Brenda's heart began to harden.

You better watch your ass if you're ever in Reno, that's all I can say.

[Chuck Nessa]

Nah, the tomatoes should be thriving. All that good food.

[JSngry]

Tomatoes stopped growing. Jalapenos have been doing great, though. Guy must've been on fire when you iced him.

[Chuck Nessa]

I have no doubt you are telling the truth, Chuck.

it's also true that I met MLK when I was a kid (though that exact conversation did NOT take place) -

I met MLK while in high school and still have the little book he told Ralph Abernathy to give me - "The Measure of a Man".

I saw him later as he posted a declaration on the doors of city hall in Chicago, 1966. At that time, Ann and I were pushed out of the way by a young Jesse Jackson. About 20 years later Jesse's guards pushed me aside again so he could go onstage at the Chicago Jazz Festival to hug BB King.

Edit to say I did NOT tell MLK I had a dream.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Chuck Nessa

[dankarlsberg]

What a great story. Reading that made me appreciate the music that has been made/preserved even more then I already do (which is not easy to do).

[Dmitry]

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/secrets-of-the-blue-note-vault-michael-cuscuna-on-monk-blakey-and-the-one-that-got-away/

I found his explanations regarding the deaths and rebirths of my favorite label especially interesting.

It also appeared to me that even as seasoned a veteran as Cuscuna doesn't know which way things are going.

[GA Russell]

Thanks Dmitry!

[Head Man]

Thanks very much for giving that link, dmitry. It's fascinating stuff, like every interview given by Michael Cuscuna.

[David Ayers]

"He was always on the verge of distorting, but he never did."

Uhh...

[AmirBagachelles]

I think MC is mistaken about RVG's treatment of drums. Much too hot and often distorted. Blakey's drums, particularly the pedal, clip quite a bit. The guys at Contemporary were making better recordings in the 50s, I believe.

[brownie]

Old old news

[Dmitry]

Imho, Alfred Lion was the sole architect of the 'Blue Note sound', and RVG did what he was told to do by AL. I don't consider RVG a magician of an engineer.

[jazzbo]

I disagree in part. RVG's self-taught style is distinctly different from the radio station and other studio work in jazz before him. I find it intriguing that he was attempting to capture exciting elements of the live performances of jazz in the studio . . . . That is what I hear in the RVG series by both Blue Note and Concord, these remasterings seem to sound more like live performances to me than the interpretations of the same tapes by others.

Yes, Alfred Lion had a very strong hand in the creation of "the Blue Note sound," but he definitely felt that key elements to RVG's recording, and mastering to LP, were integral to that sound. Just listen to Blue Note recordings before RVG, and even those that RVG recorded under Francis Wolff's production.

[Dmitry]

If we compare the RVG-recorded small group sessions that were done for other labels at the time, in many cases there is a clear difference in the sound of the BN dates and, for instance, its main competitor who also used RVG's studio, the Prestige label.

Sessions recorded by RVG for the two labels just days apart sound quite different. To me this indicates a significant influence of the producer in the recording booth in terms of the tailoring of the sound. I have no doubt that Lion also listened to the test pressings, and made corrections, if they needed to be made.

[J.A.W.]

Old old news

I have merged the 2 threads.

[Dmitry]

In support of what I wrote above, here are some words from RVG: “Alfred knew exactly what he wanted to hear. He communicated it to me and I got it for him technically. He was amazing in what he heard and how he would patiently draw it out of me. He gave me confidence and support in any situation.”

FWIW, I think so far history has given Alfred Lion the short shift. The man was instrumental in ushering a new sound, a new edge in jazz, for all to hear.

Edited January 24, 2011 by Dmitry

[jazzbo]

I don't disagree that Alfred Lion was very important in the shaping of the sound, but I see it as a partnership, and he saw in RVG a very important component of the sound. Saying Lion was "the sole architect" is over-simplifying the situation. He was a large part of the reason they sounded this way, but he was not "the sole architect." Sorry, you haven't convinced me, which is just fine, I'm very happy that we both have different opinions.

There are differences between the sound of the recordings RVG made for different labels (I really love some of the engineering for Savoy, the horns sound HUGE). . .and Alfred Lion was instrumental in the distinguished sound of Blue Note's dates, but he needed his partner RVG to collaborate with for that sound.

If you don't see it that way, vive la difference.

[Dmitry]

Let's take Waterloo - RVG was Ponsonby, Francis Wolf was Picton, and Ike Quebec was Uxbridge; all, by themselves, were 'decent to good' generals, but it took Wellington aka Alfred Lion to make them immortal. Without Wellington there would be no victory at Waterloo. Without Alfred Lion there would be no Blue Note.

[jazzbo]

I'm not agreeing with your analogy, but yeah, Alfred was the founder (with some help from Francis) so DUH.

I'm letting it lie, and going out for a ride.

[JSngry]

Rudy had the skills to get good source sound & to also work with various producers to give them their sound (i.e. - Creed Taylor & CTI). So which is more important - vision or ability to execute? Although, execution springs from/executes vision, you really dop need both in order to successfulize the outcome.

[sidewinder]

Let's take Waterloo - RVG was Ponsonby, Francis Wolf was Picton, and Ike Quebec was Uxbridge; all, by themselves, were 'decent to good' generals, but it took Wellington aka Alfred Lion to make them immortal. Without Wellington there would be no victory at Waterloo. Without Alfred Lion there would be no Blue Note.

Very good analogy !

[David Ayers]

Yes. So Englewood Cliffs is La Haye Sainte, Norman Granz is Napoleon, and that bl**dy harpsichord is Congreve's Rockets.

[Dmitry]

Duke Pearson was Blucher, obviously. He came in later.

[Dave James]

Duke Pearson was Blucher, obviously. He came in later.

http://www.horsepresence.com/shop/media/Sounds/22Loudsqueakwhinny2000.aif

[JohnJ]

Let's take Waterloo - RVG was Ponsonby, Francis Wolf was Picton, and Ike Quebec was Uxbridge; all, by themselves, were 'decent to good' generals, but it took Wellington aka Alfred Lion to make them immortal. Without Wellington there would be no victory at Waterloo. Without Alfred Lion there would be no Blue Note.

Love the analogy. Great thread that could only exist on this board!