Are there any box bargains currently available?

[JSngry]

Blue Note is a large company now?

When did that happen?

 

[Fer Urbina]

43 minutes ago, bresna said:

What's weird is when they release Blue Note material without consequence. I would think that a large company like Blue Note would take them to court.

Majors like Universal (I doubt Blue Note has their own legal team) and Sony don't care. In the big scheme of (their) things, this is peanuts and not worth the hassle. If they cared, you wouldn't see a single EU release for sale in the US -- strictly speaking, they're illegal over there.

I know someone who was pretty high up at Universal in Europe years ago and tried to convince the American branch to do cheap reissues on the 49th year of the original recording/release, that is, one year before the EU reissues came out. Never happened. Like talking to a brickwall.

F

Edited February 9, 2023 by Fer Urbina

[Brad]

48 minutes ago, bresna said:

Enlightenment is selling several box sets with material recorded after 1962. Check their discography. No need to try to "defend" them. They clearly don't feel restricted from issuing anything they think they can get away with. What's weird is when they release Blue Note material without consequence. I would think that a large company like Blue Note would take them to court.

For instance:

In principle yes but litigation is expensive and the amount of copies they’ve made may not be worth the cost and bother.

@Fer UrbinaSince BN is probably a division within UMG, they probably have their own division counsel who handles day to day matters but litigation would, in all likelihood, be handled by corporate.

Saleswise, they may have become bigger due to the popularity of the TP and Classics series  

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Brad

[GA Russell]

On 2/9/2023 at 2:09 AM, Fer Urbina said:

Two issues: one is that the law states 50 years from the date of release for pre-1963 recordings. For instance: unauthorized "EU" releases of the 1945 Bird/Dizzy concert produced by Uptown in 2005 were illegal because it was a 2005, not 1945, production.

The other issue is enforcement: masters owners don't care enough or don't have enough resources to litigate. The only case I know of following the letter of the law is Germany's Bear Family going after the UK's JSP for lifting their new masters of the early Carter Family recordings, and I'd guess that both countries being under EU law at the time made things easier.

F

Fer Urbina, thanks for your response.  My next thought would be about concerts broadcast over the radio.

Let's say Record Company signs Smith to a five-year exclusive contract in 1965.  Smith's quintet's 1967 performance is broadcast over the radio with Smith's knowledge and consent.  Jones recorded the radio broadcast.

In 2020 Jones releases a CD of his recording of the 1967 broadcast.

Smith and all of the band members are dead.

Does European copyright law give Record Company the ownership of the recording, even if Record Company had no relationship with either Radio Station or Jones?

Edited February 17, 2023 by GA Russell

[JSngry]

Smith probably(hopefully) signed a release with the radio company for that gig to be recorded.

The radio company now has legal ownership of that recording. Record Company is not a factor.

What happens after that is up to the radio company. If they make a deal with Jones, ok.

If Jones is acting unilaterally, he's a common bootlegger.

The releases are apparently a bit vague as to intended use past an initial broadcast/rebroadcast, but unless Jones got papers, he ain't got nothing but the bootlegging legs to stand on.

[Fer Urbina]

4 hours ago, GA Russell said:

Fer Urbina, thanks for your response.  My next thought would be about concerts broadcast over the radio.

Let's say Record Company signs Smith to a five-year exclusive contract in 1965.  Smith's quintet's 1967 performance is broadcast over the radio with Smith's knowledge and consent.  Jones recorded the radio broadcast.

In 2020 Jones releases a CD of his recording of the 1967 broadcast.

Smith and all of the band members are dead.

Does European copyright law give Record Company the ownership of the recording, even if Record Company had no relationship with either Radio Station or Jones?

As far as I know, it's common practice that if an artist has an exclusive contract with a label, said label has first call on any recordings made during the duration of the contract. That's what happened with the Monk at Palo Alto recording. It was announced as an Impulse (Universal) release, but Sony (as owner of Columbia, Monk's label at the time) stopped it till they reached a deal.

Nothing to do with EU jurisdiction in any case, but with a clause in the contract, I guess.

F

[JSngry]

Palo Alto concert was a private recording, not a commercial radio broadcast 

Different rules 

[GA Russell]

Apparently both of you think that the radio broadcast scenario is a matter of contract law rather than copyright law.

[Brad]

4 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

Apparently both of you think that the radio broadcast scenario is a matter of contract law rather than copyright law.

What makes you think it shouldn’t be?

[GA Russell]

8 minutes ago, Brad said:

What makes you think it shouldn’t be?

Kevin's Feb. 8 post brought up the European copyright law's relationship to 1962, and I was following up on that.

[medjuck]

I'm not sure but I think radio broadcasts are under different copyrights than recordings. (And different contract law.) 

[Chuck Nessa]

2 hours ago, medjuck said:

I'm not sure but I think radio broadcasts are under different copyrights than recordings. (And different contract law.) 

Correct.

[Brad]

12 hours ago, GA Russell said:

Kevin's Feb. 8 post brought up the European copyright law's relationship to 1962, and I was following up on that.

Your hypothetical, though, is a contract law question and Kevin’s post doesn’t have anything to do with radio air play. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Brad

[billyboy]

Amazing price on the new Dylan Fragments box set ($27!)  https://www.amazon.com/Fragments-Time-Sessions-1996-1997-Bootleg/dp/B0BKR6V1ZV/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2N1DC9H0ZF2EN&keywords=dylan+fragments&qid=1678108777&sprefix=dylan+fragments%2Caps%2C96&sr=8-1

[BFrank]

15 hours ago, billyboy said:

Amazing price on the new Dylan Fragments box set ($27!)  https://www.amazon.com/Fragments-Time-Sessions-1996-1997-Bootleg/dp/B0BKR6V1ZV/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2N1DC9H0ZF2EN&keywords=dylan+fragments&qid=1678108777&sprefix=dylan+fragments%2Caps%2C96&sr=8-1

Saw that Saturday - GRABBED it!

Edited March 7, 2023 by BFrank

[mjzee]

Some interesting Mosaics available here: https://tyqmusic.eu/label/mosaic-records/

[GA Russell]

Miles - The Bootleg Series Vol. 7: That’s What Happened 1982-1985 - $20.80 prime

https://www.amazon.com/Bootleg-Vol-Thats-Happened-1982-1985/dp/B0B3F8S4WJ/

[Justin V]

It is not my listing, but someone is selling the Buck Clayton Mosaic on eBay for $30, without the box of giant book.  For what it's worth, I ordered the Buddy Rich set they were selling for $40.

[Brad]

11 hours ago, Justin V said:

It is not my listing, but someone is selling the Buck Clayton Mosaic on eBay for $30, without the box of giant book.  For what it's worth, I ordered the Buddy Rich set they were selling for $40.

He has two different auctions where you can choose your own Mosaic cd. I’ve seen that done with sports cards but never music. A bit novel. 

[felser]

54 minutes ago, Brad said:

He has two different auctions where you can choose your own Mosaic cd. I’ve seen that done with sports cards but never music. A bit novel. 

Happens a fair amount for pop/rock/soul CD's on ebay, but usually disguises a selection of junk.   In this instance, the prices he is asking for the Mosaic CD's in that form is, to me, way high, about $15/disc for sets without box or book.  Looks like the couple bargains you mentioned were outliers.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

15 minutes ago, felser said:

Happens a fair amount for pop/rock/soul CD's on ebay, but usually disguises a selection of junk.   In this instance, the prices he is asking for the Mosaic CD's in that form is, to me, way high, about $15/disc for sets without box or book.  Looks like the couple bargains you mentioned were outliers.

Mostly what he has are fragments of sets.  And yeah too expensive for incomplete sets.

[Brad]

9 hours ago, felser said:

Happens a fair amount for pop/rock/soul CD's on ebay, but usually disguises a selection of junk.   In this instance, the prices he is asking for the Mosaic CD's in that form is, to me, way high, about $15/disc for sets without box or book.  Looks like the couple bargains you mentioned were outliers.

Generally the prices don’t seem that bad to me. The Jamal discs work out to $15 per disc. If I wanted I’d have no issue paying that. 

[Stompin at the Savoy]

2 hours ago, Brad said:

Generally the prices don’t seem that bad to me. The Jamal discs work out to $15 per disc. If I wanted I’d have no issue paying that. 

$15 per disk is fine if you get all the disks in the set.  But almost all these are orphaned pieces of sets, vol III thru V type of thing, one multi-disk jewel case out of several.  In that case I guess if I really wanted whatever music was on those volumes, possibly $15 per disk is ok.  But generally I steer away from those fragments.  Better to plunge a bit and get the full set with booklet and box.

[Brad]

2 hours ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

$15 per disk is fine if you get all the disks in the set.  But almost all these are orphaned pieces of sets, vol III thru V type of thing, one multi-disk jewel case out of several.  In that case I guess if I really wanted whatever music was on those volumes, possibly $15 per disk is ok.  But generally I steer away from those fragments.  Better to plunge a bit and get the full set with booklet and box.

The only time I’ve purchased fragments was directly from Mosaic. I don’t have the Jamal set as I thought eight or nine CDs was more than I wanted but if I was so inclined one of these fragments would be perfect. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Brad

[JSngry]

15/per seems high. I might go 7.99.

But @ 15, there's Jordiodes aplenty if all you want is to go to a pull your own parts type place...although of course having them pull it for you costs more