2010-2011 Hot Stove Thread

[BERIGAN]

  On 12/14/2010 at 2:15 PM, J.H. Deeley said:

This Lee signing is insane. My fantasy teams were never this good. The only downside to signing him is that now the pressure will be on the Phillies to make it to the WS for the next 3 years. Anything less and their season will be deemed a failure by everyone. Which is kind of unfair in a way because it is such a crap shoot once you get to the playoffs. Oh well I guess it could be worse

Congrats, you philly fans are now as obnoxious and most Yankee and Red Sox fans!

Typical Red Sox fan...Carl Crawford?? Meh...gotta have someone in Left. I'm gonna shoot myself in the face the next time Lackey, Beckett, or Daisy Duke throws a hanging nothing pitch!

Typical Yankee fan, Zack Greinke, once an headcase, always a headcase. Garza is overrrated...We aren't going to get by with this terrible outfield again in 2011, are we????

Typical Rays fan...who is still on the team??? Can't we keep one arm from the 2010 bullpen??? Man, if I ever went to games, I'd boycott the team!

Edited December 14, 2010 by BERIGAN

[papsrus]

[Tim McG]

OK.

Why are the Phillies willing to pay [an older] Lee crazy money now if they weren't willing to do so before he signed with Texas? Dumb.

Edited December 14, 2010 by GoodSpeak

[Chalupa]

  On 12/14/2010 at 6:08 PM, GoodSpeak said:

OK.

Why are the Phillies willing to pay [an older] Lee crazy money now if they weren't willing to do so before he signed with Texas? Dumb.

Signed w/ Texas?? Do you mean before they traded him away to Seattle? I don't think it was that they were unwilling to spend the money last year. I think they thought, like 99% of the baseball world, that Lee would go to the highest bidder and that they had no chance. Funny how the combined the loss to the Giants in the NLCS and Jayson Werth leaving can change one's thinking.

[Chalupa]

  On 12/14/2010 at 4:27 PM, Dave James said:

Ah, the good old days. Warning: Bad language involved.

What's really funny about that clip is that if you look at the scoreboard it was the top of the 1st inning, 0-0 score when he had that meltdown.

[Tim McG]

  On 12/14/2010 at 8:28 PM, J.H. Deeley said:

  On 12/14/2010 at 6:08 PM, GoodSpeak said:

OK.

Why are the Phillies willing to pay [an older] Lee crazy money now if they weren't willing to do so before he signed with Texas? Dumb.

Signed w/ Texas?? Do you mean before they traded him away to Seattle? I don't think it was that they were unwilling to spend the money last year. I think they thought, like 99% of the baseball world, that Lee would go to the highest bidder and that they had no chance. Funny how the combined the loss to the Giants in the NLCS and Jayson Werth leaving can change one's thinking.

OK.

Lee went to the highest bidder. Gotcha.

That still dosen't explain why, after trading him, the Phillies suddenly want to throw a shit load of money and five years at Lee. This is crazy nuts. I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to keep him on staff?

The Giants might have had a much tougher time against the Phillies if Lee was their 3rd or 4th slot pitcher in the NLCS.

It just seems like a lot of stupidity to me.

Edited December 15, 2010 by GoodSpeak

[Dan Gould]

If you don't understand any of the facts, why post?

Lee did NOT go to the highest bidder. Both the Yankees and Rangers offered more money and more years.

One thing that you ought to get though is that great pitching won't be enough to beat the Phillies in the coming few years. Great pitching + great offense will more than likely kick the shit out of Great Pitching + mediocre offense.

[Brad]

  On 12/14/2010 at 1:46 PM, Dan Gould said:

Interesting look at the rest of the Philly roster:

Let's not pencil the Phillies into the World Series Just Yet

Almost makes it out as if they are the Giants, great pitchers but at best a spotty offense.

Pretty good analysis. They will miss Werth but still should be the favorites in the NL.

[Dave James]

Word is the Yankees may make a play for Carlos Zambrano. Their newly hired pitching coach, Paul Rothschild, is the guy who talked Zambrano off the ledge after he'd slipped his moorings last year in Chicago. Over the course of his last few starts in 2010, he was as good as any pitcher in the National League.

I'm also hearing encouraging things about a couple of Yankee pitching prospects, Manny Banuelos and Dellin Betances. Some scouting reports I've seen say Banuelos, a 19-year old left hander, is as good as anyone has seen in awhile, good enough to perhaps make it to the show in a couple of years. Betances is a 6'8" behemoth with a 97-98 MPH fastball and a "plus" curve.

[ghost of miles]

So Dan's conjecture may prove true re: Zambrano. Dave, I've heard/read the same things about Banuelos and Betances... immediate problem is that I don't think either of them have thrown many games yet above single A ball and are (as you note) a couple of years away from potentially having any impact.

[Dave James]

Yanks just signed Mark Prior. My pinstriped world is crumbling. There's desperation in the air.

[ghost of miles]

Cliff Lee's presser today.

[Chuck Nessa]

  On 12/15/2010 at 10:33 PM, Dave James said:

Yanks just signed Mark Prior. My pinstriped world is crumbling. There's desperation in the air.

[JSngry]

  On 12/15/2010 at 11:58 PM, ghost of miles said:

Cliff Lee's presser today.

More detail here: http://texas.rangers...ws_mlb&c_id=mlb

I'm impressed at some level by this quote:

  Quote

"I prefer National League baseball over the American style of baseball," said Lee. "I like to hit. I like to face the other pitcher instead of the DH."

Cliff Lee, Baseball Purist. Who knew?

Of course, never mind that it's (theoretically) harder to pitch to an AL batting order...especially when the #8 hitter on a NL team in an AL-park World Series game hits the HR that loses your teams World Series...the sentiment is what counts, right?

Debt-due aside, it really sounds like the guy wanted the NL from jump, Philly especially, and was willing to take a little less to get it. Demand a fair price for your work, but go with your heart once you can get it. I call that setting a good example for people in general.

Edited December 16, 2010 by JSngry

[Chalupa]

Some quotes from today's Cliff Lee press conference...

* About turning down more lucrative offers from the Rangers and Yanks...

"It’s plenty of money," Lee said. "When you get a certain point, enough is enough. It's just a matter of where you are comfortable, where your family is comfortable … This is about winning championships and this team gives me the best chance to do that at this point."

* Phillies GM Ruben Amaro never said Werth's name during the press conference only referring to him as “our former rightfielder”

*Lee and Werth are close friends and Lee said they talked about going to the same team in free agency.

“When he found out I was coming here, he wasn’t the happiest person in the world,” Lee said, diplomatically.

HA! HA!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And there's this little tidbit to mull over. Cliff Lee's son has leukemia and Philly has one of best children's hospitals for fighting cancer in the USA. Was his son's health a factor in his decision to choose Philly?

http://offthebench.nbcsports.com/2010/12/14/was-sons-health-a-factor-in-the-cliff-lee-decision/

[JSngry]

Mark Moseley;s farewell letter to Cliff Lee: http://c.espnradio.com/audio/478207/galloway_2010-12-14-192907.mp3

[Brad]

  On 12/15/2010 at 10:33 PM, Dave James said:

Yanks just signed Mark Prior. My pinstriped world is crumbling. There's desperation in the air.

Just one of those minor league contracts that don't often pan out. Chalk it up to what do you have to lose. Not too much.

[Dan Gould]

And while it seems like a long-shot, apparently Prior has built up some shoulder strength. After his last surgery he was supposed to be struggling to throw much harder than Jamie Moyer, but apparently at AAA last year he was touching 90 or so, and he had pretty good results.

[paul secor]

  On 12/16/2010 at 2:08 PM, Dan Gould said:

And while it seems like a long-shot, apparently Prior has built up some shoulder strength. After his last surgery he was supposed to be struggling to throw much harder than Jamie Moyer, but apparently at AAA last year he was touching 90 or so, and he had pretty good results.

Not because he signed a minor league contract with the Yanks, but I'd like to see Prior have a successful comeback. From what I've read, he's worked hard over the past few years to try and get back to the majors.

[Quincy]

  On 12/16/2010 at 5:41 PM, paul secor said:

Not because he signed a minor league contract with the Yanks, but I'd like to see Prior have a successful comeback. From what I've read, he's worked hard over the past few years to try and get back to the majors.

Me too. And for worried Yankee fans, the ex-Cub factor has been defeated.

[Matthew]

I like this paragraph about Lee from Sports Illustrated

For all Lee's virtues, it isn't necessarily obvious that he's a great pitcher. Over the last two years his record is 26-22, with a good-not-brilliant 3.20 ERA. His postseason legend aside, he's made four World Series starts with a 4.55 ERA. His contribution to the Texas Rangers' playoff run was a 4-6 record and a 3.98 ERA. Even by an old school sabermetric measure like adjusted ERA he's less than the bee's knees, with a 131 mark over the last two years.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_marchman/12/16/hot.stove.roundup/index.html#ixzz18KrX6Ty3

Call me crazy on this one, but I don't think Lee made a good decision going to the National League, he seems more effective to me in the AL. Plus, I still prefer the Giant rotation to the Phillies, the Giants starters are younger and just coming into their prime. A rematch for the NL championship would be a great series.

[Chalupa]

Cliff Lee and Jayson Werth (NSFW - Language)

[JETman]

  On 12/17/2010 at 2:07 PM, J.H. Deeley said:

Cliff Lee and Jayson Werth (NSFW - Language)

That made my day!

[BERIGAN]

thats great!!!!

[paul secor]

If I were a Phillies fan, I wouldn't be completely confident. You're talking two starters who will be 34 next season (Halladay and Lee), a .500 pitcher over the past two years (Hamels), and a 33 year old (next season) pitcher who's had back problems (Oswalt). On paper, things may look great, but a lot can happen over the course of a season.

But, hey, I'd be pleased if the Yanks had that staff.

I'm hoping that Andy Pettitte will return - even though he'll be 39 next season - just because the Yanks don't have anyone better. Have a feeling that if he does return, he may break down again. If he does return, he should get a decent contract. The Yankees had him over a barrel last year, and he signed a contract for less than he was worth. This year, he holds the cards and the Yankees will have to pay to get him back.

edited for correction: Cliff Lee will be 33 next season.

Edited December 17, 2010 by paul secor