2010-2011 Hot Stove Thread

[JSngry]

Mr. Lee must pay his debt. In blood if necessary.

Testicles are not off limits either, be they his, a pig's, or a bull's. In the case of the latter two, there is also the side-benefit of edibility.

There must be honor in this world, or else we all become hooved.

[paul secor]

Mr. Lee must pay his debt. In blood if necessary.

Testicles are not off limits either, be they his, a pig's, or a bull's. In the case of the latter two, there is also the side-benefit of edibility.

There must be honor in this world, or else we all become hooved.

Glad I don't live in Texas.

Edited December 11, 2010 by paul secor

[JSngry]

If you are a man of honor, you have nothing to fear except Jerrys named Jones, out of control BDSDs, and not paying your debts in some form or fashion. Creativity is allowed.

As far as the testicles, they are alledgedly quite tasty. People coming from miles around say so, and so do people on the Food Network, all of whom would know far better than I.

[Brad]

Mr. Lee must pay his debt. In blood if necessary.

Testicles are not off limits either, be they his, a pig's, or a bull's. In the case of the latter two, there is also the side-benefit of edibility.

There must be honor in this world, or else we all become hooved.

Glad I don't live in Texas.

Amen, if he signs with the Yanks, he better get some crotch protection next time Yanks show up in Texas.

[JSngry]

Once one behooves, crotch protection is rendered irrelevant.

[ghost of miles]

Don't laugh, but "Incarcerated Bob" has set Twitter aflame with an allegedly sourced report that Lee will indeed be staying in Texas. "Incarcerated Bob" is supposedly a Yankee fan and debate is raging right now over how credible a source he/she is, but Lone Star Ball is sure talking about it... IB claims to have Tweeted other scoops from this same source over the past week.

As I've said all along, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't believe that Texas matched NY's offer even with Davis entering the fray, but I think Davis upped the ante enough to make it easier for Lee to turn down NY's offer. As several sports writers have pointed out over the past 24 hours, it's not a good sign for the Yankees that Lee has been taking so long to make a decision, when they all but certainly have put the most money on the table... clearly validates that at heart he'd rather stay where he is now.

[Brad]

I guess they need to raise the ante then.

[JSngry]

Lone Star Ball is sure talking about it...

Is this a Twitter thing or something? Because I've been looking all over the LSB Website http://www.lonestarball.com/ for all this & can't find nothing.. Can I buy a clue, please?

[ghost of miles]

Lone Star Ball is sure talking about it...

Is this a Twitter thing or something? Because I've been looking all over the LSB Website http://www.lonestarball.com/ for all this & can't find nothing.. Can I buy a clue, please?

See comments in Saturday a.m. Ranger things...the "Incarcerated Bob" discussion starts several hundred comments down.

Problem now is that some idiots (including a Twitter user named jkahn24) are flooding the Twitter zone multiple times with "Lee is staying with the Rangers, 7 yrs/155 million" that appear to be utterly bogus...so that people are now saying Lee's staying with the Rangers is "confirmed on Twitter," which is just about now proving itself to be one of the most meaningless phrases ever invented.

However, I'm not dismissing the first report out of hand.

[JSngry]

Lone Star Ball is sure talking about it...

Is this a Twitter thing or something? Because I've been looking all over the LSB Website http://www.lonestarball.com/ for all this & can't find nothing.. Can I buy a clue, please?

See comments in Saturday a.m. Ranger things...the "Incarcerated Bob" discussion starts several hundred comments down.

Ok, got it, thanks.

That is not a user-friendly format they got goin' on there, not at all...

[Dave James]

It's a bit rich [pun intended] to hear any Yankee fan complaining about a "nuclear winter" coming soon because they couldn't get the best free agent available. Move to KC, or Pittsburgh, or Houston, or Milwaukee, or Oakland, or ... Cleveland. (to name a few)

Just to clarify, my "nuclear winter" statement has a lot more to do with the Yankees' overall situation than it does with the possibility of not signing Cliff Lee. And I certainly understand that being a Yankee fan on their worst day is probably better than being a fan of KC, Pittsburg, Houston etc. on their best. Nonetheless, having become accustomed to New York inserting themselves deep into the playoff on a regular basis, I fear that those days are coming to an end. Sure, signing Lee would probably make me feel better about our immediate prospects, but the Yank's troubles go much deeper than that.

[Patrick]

It's a bit rich [pun intended] to hear any Yankee fan complaining about a "nuclear winter" coming soon because they couldn't get the best free agent available. Move to KC, or Pittsburgh, or Houston, or Milwaukee, or Oakland, or ... Cleveland. (to name a few)

Just to clarify, my "nuclear winter" statement has a lot more to do with the Yankees' overall situation than it does with the possibility of not signing Cliff Lee. And I certainly understand that being a Yankee fan on their worst day is probably better than being a fan of KC, Pittsburg, Houston etc. on their best. Nonetheless, having become accustomed to New York inserting themselves deep into the playoff on a regular basis, I fear that those days are coming to an end. Sure, signing Lee would probably make me feel better about our immediate prospects, but the Yank's troubles go much deeper than that.

Understood. It will be interesting as a non-Yankee fan to see how they go about replenishing a farm system, and whether it takes them as long as other organizations.

[ghost of miles]

New York's farm system has actually gotten better over the past few months. The player most positioned to make an immediate impact is Jesus Montero, who may even be starting at catcher come 2011 (more likely sharing duties with Jorge). Unfortunately, afaik none of the pitching prospects are probably going to be making a leap to the MLB any time soon (not counting Nova, who already went there this past season and who may well be part of next year's rotation, esp. if Lee stays with Texas and/or Pettitte retires).

I do think NY could easily slip to an 85-W team over the next 2-3 years.

[Brad]

Unless it's coming from a respected source, I wouldn't trust anything you see on Twitter or anywhere else, for that matter.

[Dan Gould]

The player most positioned to make an immediate impact is Jesus Montero, who may even be starting at catcher come 2011 (more likely sharing duties with Jorge).

You didn't get the memo. Posada has been told he is now a DH.

[Dan Gould]

Unless it's coming from a respected source, I wouldn't trust anything you see on Twitter or anywhere else, for that matter.

Even then its hardly trustworthy. Red Sox Nation spent several hours last Sunday lambasting their team for failing to make a deal for Gonzalez, and that was reported by two of the most active Twitter users, Heyman and the midget at Fox. Then all of a sudden the deal got done.

My rule of thumb is multiple independent sources being reported by multiple respectable media figures. Then I'll believe it.

And I refuse to believe Lee won't go to NY in the end. By the same token if the Yankee offer has been out there and he hasn't accepted it, well, the Texas offer is sitting there just the same. In all likelihood he's still playing each off the other to squeeze out that last dollar/guaranteed year. And that's a game the Yankees always win.

It will be a staggering blow to the ways of the world for Lee to stay in Texas and I for one am not going to get suckered in to believing that he won't be in pinstripes.

I just want them to be in position to really pay for the folly of whatever contract he signs.

[Brad]

The player most positioned to make an immediate impact is Jesus Montero, who may even be starting at catcher come 2011 (more likely sharing duties with Jorge).

You didn't get the memo. Posada has been told he is now a DH.

That comment by Cashman has to send chills down Jorge's spine: he's our DH until he plays himself off of it. Sounds like his tenure with the team is pretty tenuous.

[Tim McG]

OK.

Who in the hell is this Cashman?

Does he, she or it have a first name?

[ghost of miles]

The player most positioned to make an immediate impact is Jesus Montero, who may even be starting at catcher come 2011 (more likely sharing duties with Jorge).

You didn't get the memo. Posada has been told he is now a DH.

That comment by Cashman has to send chills down Jorge's spine: he's our DH until he plays himself off of it. Sounds like his tenure with the team is pretty tenuous.

This is the last year of Jorge's contract and I think it's pretty clear he won't be coming back; he turns 40 in August. Dan, yes, I know about Cash's statement, but I'm guessing Jorge still catches 40 or so games part-time. (Believe me, I don't want him to... he's absolutely terrible defensively now as a catcher.)

Re: Cliff Lee--Jack Curry of YES says the Yankee front office is now pessimistic that NY will ultimately land Lee. Yes, he (Lee) may be pondering whether or not he can get any more $$$--out of Texas. I have to wonder if Davis offered him a large signing bonus that will make the contract worth almost as much as NY's offer and yet keep a small but decent chunk of money off the Rangers' annual payroll.

I just want them to be in position to really pay for the folly of whatever contract he signs.

Kind of the way I'm feeling about Texas right now, though I have no doubt Lee will give them several very good years, just as he would have given the Yankees several very good years.

If we don't get Lee, my biggest concern is that we don't do something stupid like dealing Montero (+ more) to the Royals for Greinke.

Edited December 12, 2010 by ghost of miles

[Brad]

Thought I had read that Greinke had no interest in playing in NY. If so, might be a bad match.

[JSngry]

It will be a staggering blow to the ways of the world for Lee to stay in Texas...

It's those "ways of the world" that need not just a staggering, but a crushing blow. I'm under no illusions that such a blow can be delivered, especially since the only way to deliver it would be by somebodies whose real goal is little more than to make the "ways of the world" their ways for their world (see BDSD).

Count me as not believing anything until about Lee's choice until the papers are signed. And count me among those who want to see justice done in the latter days of whatever absurdass deal that whoever gets him ponies up. That shit is just nuts.

But - count me in at the frontline of those who think that a staggering blow to the ways of the world is overdue, well-deserved, just, and inevitable (and not only in the world of baseball), no matter who finally delivers it.

[Brad]

We are talking about sports, right? About battles between millionaire owners who are competing for millionaire ballplayers represented by millionaire agents. This isn't fighting for survival or balancing the budget or making sure we have healthcare but sports.

[ghost of miles]

We are talking about sports, right? About battles between millionaire owners who are competing for millionaire ballplayers represented by millionaire agents. This isn't fighting for survival or balancing the budget or making sure we have healthcare but sports.

We are talking about some heroic, noble, progressive Texas billionaires saving the baseball world (and perhaps more?) from the Evil Empire to the North that is destroying America, as far as I can tell. * **

And now, here to provide us with some ironically meta-appropriate commentary--ladies and gentlemen, the Who! ***

*I don't begrudge the Rangers Cliff Lee, if, as I believe, that's where he thinks on some level he belongs--and I certainly don't discount the value of the cultural/proximity ties. But to pretend the current/new Ranger ownership is somehow any different than the "evil" Yankees, or doesn't somehow represent the same forces in American life that are ascribed to said evil Yankees--well, pass me that hooch, friend!

**Dan's original quip, sans further interpretation, isn't that far off, actually, in terms of baseball dealings. It'll be the biggest miss by the Yankees since Greg Maddux in the early 1990s. But all it will really do is show that the Yankees don't "always get their man," or some such. It will be a more significant event for the Rangers, that's for sure, in terms of establishing their team as one that's ready to commit serious bucks to holding onto talent and fielding a winner.

*** Dig that Papa John's ad--there's almost too much "meta" in that Who video to stand!

Edited December 12, 2010 by ghost of miles

[JSngry]

But to pretend the current/new Ranger ownership is somehow any different than the "evil" Yankees, or doesn't somehow represent the same forces in American life that are ascribed to said evil Yankees--well, pass me that hooch, friend!

It's those "ways of the world" that need not just a staggering, but a crushing blow. I'm under no illusions that such a blow can be delivered, especially since the only way to deliver it would be by somebodies whose real goal is little more than to make the "ways of the world" their ways for their world (see BDSD).

Pigs is pigs, period. But it ain't right nor good for all the pigs to be in one place long enough that they think that them being there and staying is any kind of natural order of things.

Because the only thing that is natural for a pig is for it to die.

We are talking about sports, right?

Wrong.

[papsrus]

Trying not to sound too naive, but has anyone considered that Lee just might view the Rangers as the better team going forward?

Nolan Ryan certainly has a lot of appeal as an owner. And the Yankee roster is getting a little long in the tooth.

All things being (relatively) equal, now that they've had a taste of playoff success, the Rangers might just be the better option from a competitive standpoint.