couw Posted December 22, 2003 Report Posted December 22, 2003 Doing some background searching on an LP I recently found and which features some tracks with Ronnie Ross and a local Polish pick up rhythm section, I stumbled on this site: The Ronnie Ross Homepage. Nothing too spiffy looking, but very informative wrt discographical questions. My Polish LP was not listed though and it turned out something these hardcore Ross fans had never heard of. I send them the info I had and will provide them with a CDr shortly. Anyhow, I thought it's a nice site and you may want to check it out. From the little I've heard of it, I'd Ross's playing is very good. He has a very soothing tone, almost clarinet like at times. I'd welcome any comments on the guy, his music, and the rest. Quote
sidewinder Posted December 22, 2003 Report Posted December 22, 2003 Of course, his big high-profile moment was the sax break on Lou Reed's 'Walk on the Wild Side' but I guess that must already be mentioned on the Ross web site.. I have a tape of a Jazz 625 appearance in which Ross (along with Tubby Hayes) appears in an orchestra put together under Benny Golson's leadership. Ross puts in at least one fine baritone solo break - I've got the feeling that it might have been on Golson's 'The Chord'. His playing is most impressive... Quote
brownie Posted December 22, 2003 Report Posted December 22, 2003 The 'Jazz Makers' date that Ronnie Ross and drummer Alan Ganley recorded for Atlantic in 1959 was a highly enjoyable session. Excellent British jazz. Will have to give this a fresh listen. Quote
tooter Posted January 8, 2004 Report Posted January 8, 2004 Many thanks for your generous plug, Couw, which is already helping us at the Ronnie Ross homepage. I'm working on your other suggestions and have implemented some. Thanks too for the above posts which we hope will be succeeded by many more! See also thread started by my partner-in-crime Jazzman4133 - yet to attract comment! The discography is meant to include only those recordings by Ronnie Ross that were mainly in the jazz vein but this is a difficult judgement to make when one can't hear the material. Walk on the Wild Side is mentioned on the site but is not in the discography for this reason. Lots of other good stuff as well as "Jazzmakers" Brownie - hope your appetite is whetted! Quote
tooter Posted January 8, 2004 Report Posted January 8, 2004 Thank you, Couw, nice to be here. Finding my way around the other place you suggested too now. Sidewinder - tried to email you but failed - returned. Interested in your tape. Can you email me please? Quote
Man with the Golden Arm Posted January 8, 2004 Report Posted January 8, 2004 Thanks for posting this couw and a good looking site from the little I have perused thus far, tooter. Are any of Ross' titles slated for any kind of re-issue? Had never heard his own work as a leader until the Giles Peterson's comp. What a wonderful player. Most of us on this side of the pond might pass him up, but "the colored girls go: doo do doo do doo..." Quote
tooter Posted January 9, 2004 Report Posted January 9, 2004 Don't know of any plans for reissues - would be interested to hear from anyone who does. I read that RR's career began to tail off with the advent of John Surman as the number one British player so I guess he became unfashionable in some circles. But to me his improvisations were almost always very good and sometimes superlative. Having listened to all I can, including recordings of broadcast sessions at the British Library Sound Archive (an on-going program - see more additons to discography in due course) of which copies are not available, and tried to track his development, it seems that a big turning point for him was his rubbing shoulders with Mulligan in Paris in, I think, 1959. After this his sound changed, became more robust. On earlier recordings he has a lighter but still very attractive sound, but some of the BLSA sessions I've heard his sound was virile indeed. The latest session I heard, one of the tunes bordered on "free" ("Part Two" - 1985), which came as a bit of a surprise to me. Greg Dyke, of the BBC, announced fairly recently that he would like to see the BBC archives made available on-line to anyone, free of charge I think. I don't see this happening anytime soon but am living in hope. The recordings might become available after fifty years but I doubt I'll be around to reap the benefit. Quote
tooter Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 In another place I have been told about an album "Messages from Munich" reported to have been issued on the Hot House label about 1996/7. Details so far:- Personnel: Rick Kiefer (trumpet), Rudy Friesen (trombone), Olaf Kubler (soprano saxophone, tenor saxophone), Don Menza (alto saxophone, tenor saxophone), Dick Spencer (alto saxophone, flute), Hans Koller, Rudi Fierl (tenor saxophones), Ronnie Ross (baritone saxophone), Rudi Risavy (flute), Pepsi Auer, Joe Haider, Bill Le Sage (pianos), Peter Trunk, Hans Ratenbacher; George (Jiri) Mraz (basses), Cees See, Meinrad Gepport, Pierre Favre (drums). Leader: Ronnie Ross Dates: 1963 to 1967 Venue: Munich, Germany Label: Hot House Album Title: Messages From Munich Tracks: 1. Since Yesterday 2. Sub Basement Blues Note: Other tracks unknown I have contacted Peter Fincham who runs a "Hot House" label (could there be another one?) but he has no info on it and exhaustive searching has led nowhere. Apparently it's been reviewed somewhere by Alun Morgan. Can anyone shed any light on this please? Quote
jazzman4133 Posted January 26, 2004 Report Posted January 26, 2004 (edited) Hello Tooter: I found you. Keep up the good work. Edited June 28, 2004 by jazzman4133 Quote
tooter Posted January 27, 2004 Report Posted January 27, 2004 Jazzman4133 - Welcome! - My! Aren't we formal? I've seen some other "Jazzmans" about, with different tail feathers. Are they family? B) Getting lots of help now since beginning posting for assistance with the Ronnie Ross discography - thanks to "Couw" for introducing me to this and another site. Some mysteries will no doubt never be resolved but making steady progress. Thanks too to the now quite large number of people who have chipped in - even if it doesn't result in new info it's very encouraging. Nothing on "Gee Whiz!" (Artists) yet though - still hoping - I wonder if there are any copies left in the world! Quote
Man with the Golden Arm Posted January 27, 2004 Report Posted January 27, 2004 Any recs for Bill LeSage. That guy's vibes knock me out. Thanks. Quote
tooter Posted January 28, 2004 Report Posted January 28, 2004 Any recs for Bill LeSage. That guy's vibes knock me out. Thanks. I was even thinking about approaching Bill Le Sage to ask him about Ronnie Ross, for his memories, and visited his website. But then of course very shortly thereafter I heard he had passed away, which was sad. The site carried on for a little while but I can't find it now. Yes, a really good player - I'll give the albums some thought and post again soon. If you could find it "Cleopatra's Needle" would make a fine start though - Ronnie Ross the leader. Quote
tooter Posted January 28, 2004 Report Posted January 28, 2004 man with the golden arm Well, there are two new trio albums available on Mainstem which feature Bill on vibes - "The Right Vibes" and "The Right Vibes :Final Volume". Also on Mainstem is "Confirmation" but I haven't got them so I can't tell you what they're like. Sure they'll be good though. As to earlier issues, which I have got, I would suggest, after "Cleopatra's Needle", "The Bill Le Sage/Ronnie Ross Quartet" - he plays vibes on seven of the twelve tracks - if you can find it. "Road to Ellingtonia" is good too although Bill only plays vibes on three of ten tracks. A foursome of cellos is present - myself I usually avoid strings in general because they rarely swing but in this case, listening to the album, I had a vision of Bill rehearsing them with vigour and persistence to do just that. Perhaps I'm being unfair to them! Much of the other material I've got is obscure unlikely to be available I guess - airshots, etc. Hope this fits the "bill". Quote
jazzman4133 Posted January 28, 2004 Report Posted January 28, 2004 (edited) Hello Tooter.........it appears we are both here at the same time. Nope........you just left. Edited January 28, 2004 by jazzman4133 Quote
couw Posted February 12, 2004 Author Report Posted February 12, 2004 I'm listening to Hans Koller's album "Exclusiv," recently reissued by MPS/Universal. Besides a series of Quartet tracks with Zoller, Pettiford, and Jimmy Pratt, there are performances by a nonet that features Ronnie Ross. Very nice relaxed stuff overall. The music is great, the packaging is georgeous, the sound is most perfect, what more do you want? Quote
couw Posted February 13, 2004 Author Report Posted February 13, 2004 (edited) here are the liner notes to Ronnie Ross's first album under his own name: Cleopatra's Needle. Thus far I only have a B&W copy of the cover. If anyone can provide a colour scan, I would be very grateful and I know the guys at ronnieross.com would be as well. ------------ This album chalks up a number of what the more journalistically inclined like to call 'fists'. To begin with, it's the first time a valuable jazz musician has been required to risk life, limb and instrument by climbing half way up an ancient Egyptian monument (and that was just for the sleeve). Next, it includes possibly the only tune ever dedicated to a microphone - Les Condon's U69; shame on you if you thought different. Finally, and most amazing of all, although he's shared the billing often enough, it seems that Ronnie Rossis appearing on L.P. as sole leader for the first time. It's not exactly premature. For those who get excited at the drop of a ballot form, he's been figuring in British jazz polls since before the baritone saxophone stopped being a miscellaneous instrument (in some hands it's still pretty miscellaneous even now). He first made a name for himself in local jazz circles as a sort of 'discovery' of Don Rendell, who used him on tenor apparently - the switch to baritone came shortly after - in a sextet he formed in 1954. Subsequent associations were with Allan Ganley, Ken Moule, and Tony Kinsey. It was while he was with Tony Kinsey, in fact, that he formed long and congenial partnership with pianist Bill le Sage. It began in the mid-fifties in a Kinsey group that went to Cyprus to entertain the forces, and it continues to this day. He's played in America a number of times; the first was in 1958, when he was a member of the International Band that went to Newport, and the second time was in the next year with Allan Ganley's Jazzmakers. Another occasion was in 1963 when he, Ronnie Scott and Jimmy Deuchar did a season at the Half Note in New York, after which Ronnie Scott made minor history by having a little grumble about an American rhythm section. Soon - I write in mid-1968 - Ronnie Ross will be heard in a BBC television production of Gunther Schuller's opera 'The Visitation', in which a jazz group joins forces with the BBC Symphony Orchestra to play the rather complex 12-tone score. ('We all stick to the tone-row fairly well', says Ronnie, 'though a few hot licks manage to get in here and there'). On this record he's with a conventional jazz line-up of his own choosing. Two sessions were involved: one with a sextet consisting of himself, Les Condon on trumpet, Art Elefsen on tenor, Bill le Sage on piano and vibes, Spike Heatley on bass, and Ronnie Stephenson on drums. The other was by a quintet with the same personnel minus Les Condon and with Tony Carr on drums instead of Ronnie Stephenson. The whole album marks something of a return to jazz for Ronnie Ross, because, like so many fine musicians of his generation, he finds there simply isn't enough jazz work to keep body, soul and mortgage together. The bulk of his living, therefore comes from using his considerable technique on more or less commercial dates. 'Although I welcomed thechance, I was a bit apprehensive about these sessions,' said Ronnie, 'because I'm not so steeped in jazz these days. But the playback sounded pretty good and I feel much happier about the whole thing. In fact, nothing was as petrifying as having to perch on that ledge on Cleopatra's Needle for the cover picture.' The playback, in our submission, sounds more than 'pretty good'. Ronnie, on baritone throughout, sounds confident and relaxed, and his roomy tone is well preserved by the recording. The hard, chisel-edge of Art's tenor has seldom been heard better, either, while Les Condon's fleet, darting attack will be a revelation to many listeners. Bill le Sage, on piano except for one track, seems to be in a more rumbustious mood than usual. The eight compositions are all originals. Ronnie Ross wrote three of them: DOLPHIN SQUARE, dedicated to a party at which Zoot Sims was present, once held in a flat there ('It must have been a good one, because I don't remember it'); CLEOPATRA'S NEEDLE, which he describes as 'an old fashioned 20-bar blues'; and the quintet number SMILING JACK, which he reluctantly confessed is a nickname for Zoot Sims ? reluctantly, I suspect, because Zoot himself doesn't like being called by it. Bill le Sage contributed two titles, STAND BY and BREWER'S CASTLE. TIBUFA, intricately derived by assembling syllables taken from certain parts of the human anatomy (jazz musicians' handling of the language can be unbelievably obtuse) is by Art Elefsen. Spike Heatley wrote the very intriguing EUCALYPTUS KID, while LES CONDON provided U69. The approach is straightforward without being offhand. No extremes, either of hysteria or doom, are involved. No attempt is made to prove anything - except, maybe, what a good idea it was to make the record. ------------ Edited February 14, 2004 by couw Quote
couw Posted February 13, 2004 Author Report Posted February 13, 2004 (edited) does anyone have anything on the "minor history" Ronnie Scott (not Ross) made "by having a little grumble about an American rhythm section" ?? Edited February 14, 2004 by couw Quote
tooter Posted February 14, 2004 Report Posted February 14, 2004 Couw - you mean Ronnie Scott, not Ronnie Ross. Hope someone has the story. He was together in New york with Jimmy Deuchar and Ronnie Ross, so it says, in 1963. Quote
tooter Posted February 14, 2004 Report Posted February 14, 2004 See you are looking now - any comment? Quote
couw Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Posted February 14, 2004 Couw - you mean Ronnie Scott, not Ronnie Ross. Hope someone has the story. He was together in New york with Jimmy Deuchar and Ronnie Ross, so it says, in 1963. sorry, yes of course! so many Ronnies running around... Quote
couw Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Posted February 14, 2004 See you are looking now - any comment? I'm googling away at this story right now! Quote
tooter Posted February 14, 2004 Report Posted February 14, 2004 Still waiting for the gospel on the story though. I guess there were plenty of Americans who came to the UK and complained about our rhythm sections so it was a novelty for the boot to be on the other foot. But until we know the nature of the complaint we can't say. Quote
tooter Posted February 14, 2004 Report Posted February 14, 2004 Just used a select portion of your picture as my avatar - Hope you don't mind! Only temporary until I can get something in colour. Quote
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