Question for Blue Note collectors

[Chuck Nessa]

forgive me but phonograph records were made to deliver sound/music. some issues do a better job than others because of the quality of the pressings or the quality of the mastering. i find the "collector's" search for "originals" to be an anti sound reproduction fetish. collectors never ask the best mastering of an lp, only the earliest. this, in my opinion, is against the best reproduction of the music. to me this is no different than stamp collecting. curiously, this habit has not transferred to cds where mcmasters would be sought by collectors.

[peterintoronto]

curiously, this habit has not transferred to cds where mcmasters would be sought by collectors.

Steve Hoffman tells all of his forum members to buy all the Ron McMaster CDs they can.

I don't trust Steve Hoffman's hair though, so I have stuck with the RVGs.

[clifford_thornton]

curiously, this habit has not transferred to cds where mcmasters would be sought by collectors.

Actually, I seek those out. Far superior to most RVG remasters.

[Peter A]

forgive me but phonograph records were made to deliver sound/music. some issues do a better job than others because of the quality of the pressings or the quality of the mastering. i find the "collector's" search for "originals" to be an anti sound reproduction fetish. collectors never ask the best mastering of an lp, only the earliest. this, in my opinion, is against the best reproduction of the music. to me this is no different than stamp collecting.

Thanks for expressing your opinion (or disapproval) about collectors. I think everyone on this board was already aware of that.

It would be nice though, to let us collectors decide for ourselves if we want to discuss silly things as labels, ears, jackets and so on.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Peter A

[kh1958]

:party: :party: :party: :party:

Congratulations Chuck Nessa! You've just broken the record for the most consecutive smug responses to jazz collector queries! 14171 is a number you should be proud of. To have avoided a single post on this board of any genuine emotion other than self-satisfaction is remarkable. If you haven't already passed out from the past hour and a half of sniffing your own farts, I hope you enjoy your triumph. Groovissimo!

But seriously, I only bought the Sunshine of My Soul LP for $10. I was skeptical that it was listed as an original pressing, so I wanted to find out the truth. I apologize for not having been born before 1945 and not having caught the jazz bug until relatively recently. I haven't seen any of these three LPs with another label, so I tried to find a labelography for Prestige. I couldn't find one, I did a search on this board so as to avoid a redundant topic. I found this topic and asked for a clarification. Is that not exactly what this board is for? Or is it just a source of flattery to make people still feel relevant? How is the city of jazz supposed to thrive without respect and communication?

Oh, and I take it green label=reissue? Is the green label analogous to liberty or blue label BN's?

Yes, the green labels are post-Fantasy acquisition issues. They could be reissues or new issues, as they kept putting out new albums on Prestige for awhile after the change in ownership.

[Peter A]

So, I have a question. I still can't find a labelography for these. Is this to say that Status is the only subsidiary out of these to reissue earlier titles?

The green label Prestige, distributed by Fantasy aren't necessarily reissues, right? Or are they?

For these examples, is the original dark blue, purple, or green? I've seen or have green labels for each of these, and was wondering if they are original pressings or not:

-7550: Sunshine of my Soul (Jaki Byard) [10/31/67]

-7615: The Jaki Byard Experience (Jaki Byard) [9/17/68]

-7686: Solo Piano (Jaki Byard) [7/31/69]

Thanks!

-Jay

Jay,

Some of the earlier titles on Prestige, New Jazz, Swingville and Moodsville were reissued on the Status label. However, the last numbers of the New Jazz catalogue were issued only on the Status label (but with ST instead of NJ prefix). Pressing quality of Status issues is so so.

First pressings of the Byard records you mention should have blue labels with logo on top.

Peter

[blajay]

So, I have a question. I still can't find a labelography for these. Is this to say that Status is the only subsidiary out of these to reissue earlier titles?

The green label Prestige, distributed by Fantasy aren't necessarily reissues, right? Or are they?

For these examples, is the original dark blue, purple, or green? I've seen or have green labels for each of these, and was wondering if they are original pressings or not:

-7550: Sunshine of my Soul (Jaki Byard) [10/31/67]

-7615: The Jaki Byard Experience (Jaki Byard) [9/17/68]

-7686: Solo Piano (Jaki Byard) [7/31/69]

Thanks!

-Jay

Jay,

Some of the earlier titles on Prestige, New Jazz, Swingville and Moodsville were reissued on the Status label. However, the last numbers of the New Jazz catalogue were issued only on the Status label (but with ST instead of NJ prefix). Pressing quality of Status issues is so so.

First pressings of the Byard records you mention should have blue labels with logo on top.

Peter

Thanks Peter! Exactly the type of answer I was looking for.

[Chuck Nessa]

curiously, this habit has not transferred to cds where mcmasters would be sought by collectors.

Actually, I seek those out. Far superior to most RVG remasters.

You miss a bunch of great sounding discs. Not all RVGs are good (some are real stinkers) but the majority I've bought are fine.

FWIW, the 1500 series benefits from RVG more than some later issues.

[sidewinder]

(some are real stinkers) but the majority I've bought are fine.

Any particular stinkers in particular that should be avoided on this series?

Edited October 24, 2008 by sidewinder

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

that is good to know, beacuse i mostly have ron mccmasters: i recall i replaced a few discs. sidewinder. goddamit why did i do that. i thought i was getting the cooler one. DAMIT. is it really that different? will i still enjoy the sidewinder.

no room. but thats ok i have it on lp so its all good.

um i think i have a new perspective on rvg too.

now japananese rvgs are different though....you guys like the sound on those ones more, isnt that right? or whats the stevehoffman board verdict on those, i dont recall

thankfully i have mostly mcmasters, are those harder to find now? does blue note now only ditrbute rvg discs as far as reissues go? is that what is happeneing?

[michel1969]

collectors never ask the best mastering of an lp, only the earliest. this, in my opinion, is against the best reproduction of the music. to me this is no different than stamp collecting.

Yes, definitely. I'm exactly THAT kind of collector !!!

[Daniel A]

Just as you can be a music lover and stamp collector, you can be a music lover and record collector. Collecting records does not automatically exclude appreciation for music.

[Big Beat Steve]

Collecting records does not automatically exclude appreciation for music.

Unless you automatically place a (monetary) premium on the fact that that particular record you are coveting is necessarily one that might actually have been in the grubby hands of some record wheeling and dealing pimp in, say, 1958 - regardless of whether the original mastering or pressing quality on that 1958 "original" was in fact inferior to a slightly later pressing of, say, 1963 or 1965 or whenever. :D

I can very well imagine cases like those described by Chuck Nessa (and can think of a few, though not BN's) so I sort of understand his common-sense stance on this.

Collecting is fine (aren't we all collectors of sorts) and invariably goes with a fair bit of fetichism and searches for holy grails once you've gotten into it beyond certain limits, but you CAN overdo it, you know, especially if all of you "first pressing collectors" work yourselves into a frenzy that turns more and more aspects of that kind of collecting into a sort of "self-fulfilling prophecy".

[clifford_thornton]

FWIW, the 1500 series benefits from RVG more than some later issues.

Good to know. Usually if I re-buy something I have on an earlier-issue CD, I go the LP route.

[clifford_thornton]

I'm not going to spend a grand on a first pressing BN or Prestige but I enjoy vinyl enough to seek out at least a Japanese pressing of something like this.

With un-reissued free jazz, etc., vinyl is the only game in town.

[michel1969]

Collecting records does not automatically exclude appreciation for music.

Unless you automatically place a (monetary) premium on the fact that that particular record you are coveting is necessarily one that might actually have been in the grubby hands of some record wheeling and dealing pimp in, say, 1958 - regardless of whether the original mastering or pressing quality on that 1958 "original" was in fact inferior to a slightly later pressing of, say, 1963 or 1965 or whenever. :D

I can very well imagine cases like those described by Chuck Nessa (and can think of a few, though not BN's) so I sort of understand his common-sense stance on this.

Collecting is fine (aren't we all collectors of sorts) and invariably goes with a fair bit of fetichism and searches for holy grails once you've gotten into it beyond certain limits, but you CAN overdo it, you know, especially if all of you "first pressing collectors" work yourselves into a frenzy that turns more and more aspects of that kind of collecting into a sort of "self-fulfilling prophecy".

For me it is very simple : if i like an album, i want the original press in NM condition. Period. It is not a question of sound, or mastering or anything like that. I want the piece of history. If one of my favourite record is worth nothing on the current collector market, it is good news. One of my all time favourite jazz records is "Streamline", by Rolf Kuhn : i paid 14 $ for a NM copy. Its a treasure for me, and a holy grail. And what if i had to pay hundreds of $$$$ to get it ? Well i would have paid.

Now regarding the "self fulfilling prophecy" it is somewhat true : the more i pay the more i think my record has great value. Its for the show. I think many Japanese collectors are into this frenzy. But in fact, the market is not so crazy. You can see it on some occasion. For example a (supposedly) near mint copy of "The House of Blue lights" recently sold for more than 500 $ on Ebay. You can call it frenzy, because many previous auctions were in the 300 range (its a big price !). Now you can find a NM copy of this one with a 600 $ buy it now price. But nobody actually bought it, and nobody will. Why ? because the two or three fanatics already have it. Many collectors already have their. And potential buyers are not willing to pay this price..; So, i bet that the seller will list this one at regular auction, and it will sell for 250 - 350. This is fair.

[clifford_thornton]

I don't know if it really works that way anymore, especially as popsike is setting prices as well. The insanity that goes on is marked as "standard" so that now a fucking Bill Fay record is $2000, rather than $200.

[peterintoronto]

With un-reissued free jazz, etc., vinyl is the only game in town.

You are speaking the truth right here. I just wish it were more plentiful/cheaper sometimes!

[clifford_thornton]

It's funny... I took a few spare copies of FMPs, Emanem LPs, and a couple of lesser AACM titles over to a local record store and put them out on consignment. The record show came and went and they just sat in the racks. Still there, and I'll probably have to give up and bring them back home to the doubles shelf. None of these were priced exorbitantly and though some were a little scuffed, I would have thought they would garner some interest. I mean, Austin's a "record town," right? Oh well...