George Shearing -- Is it wrong to think that

[Big Beat Steve]

Shearing's playing makes me shake my head in frustration. The more attention you give it, the worse it sounds. I don't mind that it's "easy going," I just think it's poor improvising. One example out of many: listen to "September in the Rain," from his first MGM session. The first 16 bars are played with the classic Shearing ensemble sound, and I say - nothing wrong with that. It's easy going, it's pleasant, it swings lightly - fine. But listen to the bridge. Shearing plays an unbroken string of extremely fast notes that has absolutely no melodic point - it circles around, it rises and falls, it goes nowhere.

Oh, well, the same can easily be said during listening to some very famous, well-known, "serious" jazz legends.

And contemporary musicians too.

Oh but you forget, MMilovan: George Shearing may (and will) probably be faulted for NOT making full use of what he is capable of.

WHEREAS - those others who you probably think of (and me too ) played jazz in a style that might best be described as "anything goes". But if you feel that what they play just goes nowhere then either you just don't understand - or this rising and falling, going around in circles is an aim in itself because it is OH so intensely delivered ... ;)

And then again there are those who actually were poor, tormented, pained souls who just could not cope with what they would have to cope in order to do things properly and not get hung up in what they did. So losing your way, rambling aimlessly on and fumbling in search of what you actually would have wanted to say is all fine by these standards, regardless of the fact that it ought to have remained mercifully unrecorded.

Note: No, I am not primarily thinking about certain pianists that would come to mind but a case in point is ERNIE HENRY. Period reviews found his tone poor and uncultured, his playing childish, incapable of expressing his ideas, playing out of tune, straining at getting to grips with his instrument and at trying to say what he would have had to say, etc. And then all of a sudden in more recent reviews and writeups he is lauded for his oh so passionate and deeply felt playing. Now which is which, really? (My personal opinion based on what I've heard is probably somewhere between these two extremes)

And to top it off, Bob Rusch states in one review his glaring errors and being out of focus would have been perfect if his name had been Ornette Coleman but not in his case since he just was not Ornette. Numb fumbling on purpose as something to strive for?

Or doesn't it really only boil down to a case of what one would WANT TO HEAR in a given artist, regardless of what that artist actually was/is or aimed for? A bit like the way Brubeck is criticised.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Big Beat Steve

[jeffcrom]

Well, I'm not sure that I really follow all the points above, but I'm always happy when people take pleasure in music, even if it's music that I don't particularly like.

[Big Beat Steve]

Well, I guess we'd both agree on a lot of what we listen to on 78s, isn't it? (At least I'd agree with most of your comments on the 78s you reported on here )

And where we don't (on 78s or otherwise), wouldn't it be dreary if everybody had the same tastes?

The bottom line IMHO is that anyway you look at it, a lot of what one would consider of merit really is in the "ear of the behearer".

Because like MMilovan said, if you'd dissect the music really closely no doubt there would be tons and tons of aimless rambling "that goes nowhere" to be found in many of those "blowing sessions" dear to the heart of many hard boppers too.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

I enjoy interesting harmonic choices, regardless of the context. Not everybody does - or can - make them.

Certainly not the only - or even the main - thing I look for in music, but if it's there, I'll take it, and then proceed accordingly.

[jeffcrom]

Mmilovan and Big Beat Steve - I'm lifting a glass of Kentucky bourbon in your honor tonight. To music - cheers!

[Big Beat Steve]

Thanks Jeff, but would you mind if I myself would opt for some SCOTCH instead? (Yes, that might be another case of disagreement

Going to play me some Dodo Marmarosa now for some interesting harmonics.

[AllenLowe]

George Shearing = Ernie Henry = Ornette Coleman = Dave Brubeck ???????

only on the Planet Chewy.

what I'm waiting for is reissue of the famous Shearing/Mobley session.

title: "The Blind Leading the Blinded"

Edited October 14, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Big Beat Steve]

George Shearing = Ernie Henry = Ornette Coleman = Dave Brubeck ???????

only on the Planet Chewy.

I hear you! :rofl:

Though you know quite well the point was a different one. (Different people being accused of shortcomings at different times - and some of them in comparable ways - but definitely NOT ALL of these people being lumped together at the SAME time )

[mmilovan]

Thanks Jeff, but would you mind if I myself would opt for some SCOTCH instead? (Yes, that might be another case of disagreement

Going to play me some Dodo Marmarosa now for some interesting harmonics.

Cheers to all!

[Teasing the Korean]

Why is it so hard to accept easy going music as an art form?

Now I have an interesting take on this because, if you read my posts in the "What Vinyl are you Spinning" thread, I have a higher tolerance for schlock than 95% of the regulars around here. I also love many, many subgenres of jazz.

That said, most of Shearing's records don't thrill me that much, because, if I'm looking for jazz, they generally don't deliver, and when I want so-called "easy listening," most of his albums don't have that X-factor that I find in other artists. as a result, most of those Capitol albums leave me cold.

Love that MGM stuff though! Too bad "An Evening with George Shearing" was mastered at a drastically wrong speed - at least all the copies I've picked up.

I will add that Chuck Wayne's stunning "In a Chinese Garden" is one of the most gorgeous slices of chamber jazz exotica I've ever heard, and I regularly include it in my exotica sets.

God bless George Shearing. As I said previously, that piano-vibes-guitar block chord sound was like my childhood vision of adulthood, with the vibes in the role of the ice cubes.

[mmilovan]

I will add that Chuck Wayne's stunning "In a Chinese Garden" is one of the most gorgeous slices of chamber jazz exotica I've ever heard, and I regularly include it in my exotica sets.

God bless George Shearing. As I said previously, that piano-vibes-guitar block chord sound was like my childhood vision of adulthood, with the vibes in the role of the ice cubes.

I like "In a Chinese Garden" as well. But, from what I've been heard, this piece is written, not improvised at all...

[Teasing the Korean]

Oh, clearly there's no improvisation in it, luckily for us.

[jeffcrom]

Right now I'm spinning a couple of vintage LPs I just picked up at a local record store: Shearing in Hi-Fi on MGM (a really nice copy) and The Shearing Spell, his first album on Capitol. I'm enjoying myself, although Shearing still doesn't really impress me as an improviser. Toots Thielemans sure sounds good, as do Cal Tjader and Al McKibbon.

In any case, I hope that Big Beat Steve and mmilovan give me credit for being open-minded.

[alocispepraluger102]

This one is very nice indeed:

Interesting cover..

about once a month, i dig one of those gorgeous shearing old caps out, and lean back.

they might not be jazzy, but they are tasteful, literate, and quiet.

the musicianship is always stellar.

in my world, there is still a place, and occasionally a thirst, for the shearing sound.

[JSngry]

...they are tasteful, literate, and quiet.

the musicianship is always stellar.

"Quiet" is neither here nor there for me, but otherwise, that really gets to the gist of the whole thing right there. Everything else comes down to what you like or don't like.

But tasteful, literate, and stellar musicianship...I just feel wrong anymore not recognizing and appreciating that, even if it is in something for which I otherwise have no use. Seems to me that there's more to having an informed opinion than just reflex.

[mikeweil]

Shearing's playing makes me shake my head in frustration. The more attention you give it, the worse it sounds. I don't mind that it's "easy going," I just think it's poor improvising. One example out of many: listen to "September in the Rain," from his first MGM session. The first 16 bars are played with the classic Shearing ensemble sound, and I say - nothing wrong with that. It's easy going, it's pleasant, it swings lightly - fine. But listen to the bridge. Shearing plays an unbroken string of extremely fast notes that has absolutely no melodic point - it circles around, it rises and falls, it goes nowhere. I wanted to yell at the record player, "Jeez - take a breath; leave some space!" Forget comparisons with Bud Powell; imagine what Dodo Marmarosa would have done with those eight measures.

There's one big difference between Shearing on one and Bud and Dodo on the other side: the latter were able to see the keyboard. Being blind limits the intervals you can finger - for wider leaps between bars you have to see the keys. That's why there are no blind vibes players. As a blind player you always have to stay down on the keys and feel them and move in close steps. That necessitates a different meldodic style. Consider the tunes he chose etc.

[JSngry]

Shearing's playing makes me shake my head in frustration. The more attention you give it, the worse it sounds. I don't mind that it's "easy going," I just think it's poor improvising. One example out of many: listen to "September in the Rain," from his first MGM session. The first 16 bars are played with the classic Shearing ensemble sound, and I say - nothing wrong with that. It's easy going, it's pleasant, it swings lightly - fine. But listen to the bridge. Shearing plays an unbroken string of extremely fast notes that has absolutely no melodic point - it circles around, it rises and falls, it goes nowhere. I wanted to yell at the record player, "Jeez - take a breath; leave some space!" Forget comparisons with Bud Powell; imagine what Dodo Marmarosa would have done with those eight measures.

There's one big difference between Shearing on one and Bud and Dodo on the other side: the latter were able to see the keyboard. Being blind limits the intervals you can finger - for wider leaps between bars you have to see the keys. That's why there are no blind vibes players. As a blind player you always have to stay down on the keys and feel them and move in close steps. That necessitates a different meldodic style. Consider the tunes he chose etc.

Not sure that Lennie Tristano had those limitations. Also not sure when he went blind.

FWIW, I've read on occasion that the Shearing bridge on "September..." caught the attention of a fair number of players in its time.

FWIW.

[Larry Kart]

Born with weak sight, Tristano was completely blind by age 9-10.

[Alexander Hawkins]

Shearing's playing makes me shake my head in frustration. The more attention you give it, the worse it sounds. I don't mind that it's "easy going," I just think it's poor improvising. One example out of many: listen to "September in the Rain," from his first MGM session. The first 16 bars are played with the classic Shearing ensemble sound, and I say - nothing wrong with that. It's easy going, it's pleasant, it swings lightly - fine. But listen to the bridge. Shearing plays an unbroken string of extremely fast notes that has absolutely no melodic point - it circles around, it rises and falls, it goes nowhere. I wanted to yell at the record player, "Jeez - take a breath; leave some space!" Forget comparisons with Bud Powell; imagine what Dodo Marmarosa would have done with those eight measures.

There's one big difference between Shearing on one and Bud and Dodo on the other side: the latter were able to see the keyboard. Being blind limits the intervals you can finger - for wider leaps between bars you have to see the keys. That's why there are no blind vibes players. As a blind player you always have to stay down on the keys and feel them and move in close steps. That necessitates a different meldodic style. Consider the tunes he chose etc.

I guess that's true about keyboard players in general. And I'm not sure if he can be counted alongside keyboard players 'generally', but the defence will presumably cite Tatum's left hand...

[Big Beat Steve]

Shearing's playing makes me shake my head in frustration. The more attention you give it, the worse it sounds. I don't mind that it's "easy going," I just think it's poor improvising. One example out of many: listen to "September in the Rain," from his first MGM session. The first 16 bars are played with the classic Shearing ensemble sound, and I say - nothing wrong with that. It's easy going, it's pleasant, it swings lightly - fine. But listen to the bridge. Shearing plays an unbroken string of extremely fast notes that has absolutely no melodic point - it circles around, it rises and falls, it goes nowhere. I wanted to yell at the record player, "Jeez - take a breath; leave some space!" Forget comparisons with Bud Powell; imagine what Dodo Marmarosa would have done with those eight measures.

There's one big difference between Shearing on one and Bud and Dodo on the other side: the latter were able to see the keyboard. Being blind limits the intervals you can finger - for wider leaps between bars you have to see the keys. That's why there are no blind vibes players. As a blind player you always have to stay down on the keys and feel them and move in close steps. That necessitates a different meldodic style. Consider the tunes he chose etc.

Just for the record, Mike:

That MOST DEFINTELY wasn't me who said the above. Please don't put words like that into my mouth as long as others even drool about the erratic, aimless keyboard fumbling of people who had massive mental problems and yet unfortunately were recorded in their baddest moments.

@Jeffcrom:

Referring to your recent purchases, do you really doubt I would have doubted your open-mindedness? Our disagreements about the relative merits of early Shearing were more a case of different tastes, weren't they?

Edited January 19, 2011 by Big Beat Steve

[mikeweil]

Sorry - I made an editing mistake while quoting a post. That statement was by jeffcrom, if I read things correctly. No offense intended

[mikeweil]

And I'm not sure if he can be counted alongside keyboard players 'generally', but the defence will presumably cite Tatum's left hand...

Tatum has lots of pet licks that keep him close to the keyboard. He's great, but his array pf phrases is limited.