Ken Burns' "Jazz"

[MomsMobley]

Ken Burns Is A Fucking Fraud, intellectually, and his decent narrative skills aren't enough to overcome his sentimental sapheadedness.

Big Beat Steve, who's the white beardo, Gary Giddins I presume? Yeah, he knows "tons"-- just ask him!

Chris, in Burns' Civil War documentary-- the only one I've been able to watch front-to-back without turning off in rage-- he ends it by using a ** 1915 ** (or thereabouts) Blue-Grey reunion photograph with black soldiers in it but implies it's MUCH earlier-- when no such racial reconciliation took place, TO SAY THE LEAST!!! as anyone who knows the slightest thing about Reconstruction can attest.*

I tried to watch the early episodes of "Baseball" purely for 'data' (visual or anecdotal) and it was so insipid I had to quit halfway thru disc 1.

* I'm doing this from memory; I can dig up the exact details if anyone's curious but it was BLATANT misrepresentation of historical truth.

Shelby Foote, btw, has more style & brains than Marsalis & Crouch put together tho' he can be equally full of shit (i.e. his famous line that the Union 'fought with one hand tied behind its back," which led one famous historian to reply, in a lecture, "bullshit, Shelby.")

And that Bird recording, played IIRC while some talking head is praising his miracles of construction, is on a tape loop! It's as though Burns had panned across Leonardo's "Last Supper" and repeated what was to the left side of the fresco as though it also were on the right side, all while someone was discussing the formal layout of the work. If you're dealing with music, it helps to have ears.

[papsrus]

Don't know if it's been linked to before, but here's an interesting 2001 review of Burns' "Jazz" from the late Joe Goldberg:

http://www.jazzhouse.org/gone/index.php3?view=1264890487

Thanks for linking that.

[Larry Kart]

I'm pretty sure that the "white beardo"(i.e. a bearded white guy rather than a guy with a white beard) was not Giddins but Berklee faculty member-violinist Matt Glaser:

http://www.berklee.edu/faculty/detail/matt-glaser

Don't recall now exactly what Glaser said, but I do recall that it struck me at the time as annoying bordering on insufferable. But then I've been told that that description fits me.

[Larry Kart]

Yes -- from that Joe Goldberg piece linked to above:

"While Louis Armstrong is playing, a musician named Matt Glaser shakes his head in time, and scats along."

IIRC, the self-satisfied smirk on Glaser's face as he substituted himself for Armstrong was quite something.

[Big Beat Steve]

Don't know if it's been linked to before, but here's an interesting 2001 review of Burns' "Jazz" from the late Joe Goldberg:

http://www.jazzhouse.org/gone/index.php3?view=1264890487

Very interesting review. Thanks for the link!

A bit acidic but much to the point, I'd say, to all those who really are into the music and not just casually interested in the subject.

Will print it out and file it with my copy of the JAZZ book.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Big Beat Steve

[danasgoodstuff]

Given the origins of the term 'jazz', calling it "Ken Burns' Jazz" seems, um, entirely appropriate!

[Ken Dryden]

I've tried to watch it but ended up feeling like it was not worth the effort. The list of artists Burns ignored or barely touched on is long, while someone who actually knew something about jazz (Burns owned a handful of CDs when he got started) would have easily done a better job, given the same funding.

One example: Why was Wynton Marsalis interviewed about what it was like playing with Duke Ellington, which he obviously never did? Clark Terry would have been the logical person to interview.

[MomsMobley]

Pretty sure correction noted, thank you!

I think its important for people to realize the beefs with Burns are NOT just aesthetic/critical, i.e. who likes what more but that he is essentially DISHONEST for no other reason than being a dope or wanting to make a 'feel good' version of whatever his topic. Thus too in "The Civil War" he strongly implies the Union fought the war to end slavery from the start, which is utterly false-- it could have ended early with slavery intact and, also, BY FAR most northerners weren't abolitionists or anything close to it.

I found one of the quotes I was looking for btw, from transcript of a lecture by historian David Blight-- it's worse than I remembered!

David Blight "Legacies of the Civil War

But if one thing in particular happened to the memory of the Civil War, it found it its way eventually into a broad consensus, in the broader national culture--this was never unanimous of course--but in the broader national culture that somehow, in this war, in this Armageddon, in this blood-letting, everybody had been right and nobody had been wrong.

You want to reconcile a country that's had a horrifying civil war, how do you do it?

Well, you start building thousands upon thousands of monuments.

You start having soldier reunions. You've read about the Gettysburg Reunion in this essay of mine; I won't even go into that, the biggest of all the Blue-Grey Reunions, which became the Jim Crow Reunion by 1913.

And Ken Burns did not tell you that in his film, and played a very interesting trick on you with that editing button by showing you black and white veterans at the 1913 Reunion shaking hands--an irresistible, beautiful, emotional moment.

The trouble is those veterans were shaking hands 25 years later, in 1938, at the New Deal Reunion at Gettysburg. They weren't there in 1913, but in the film that's certainly what it looks like. The power of filmmaking.

I'm pretty sure that the "white beardo"(i.e. a bearded white guy rather than a guy with a white beard) was not Giddins but Berklee faculty member-violinist Matt Glaser:

http://www.berklee.edu/faculty/detail/matt-glaser

Don't recall now exactly what Glaser said, but I do recall that it struck me at the time as annoying bordering on insufferable. But then I've been told that that description fits me.

[paul secor]

Don't know if it's been linked to before, but here's an interesting 2001 review of Burns' "Jazz" from the late Joe Goldberg:

http://www.jazzhouse.org/gone/index.php3?view=1264890487

Very interesting review. Thanks for the link!

A bit acidic but much to the point, I'd say, to all those who really are into the music and not just casually interested in the subject.

Will print it out and file it with my copy of the JAZZ book.

Thanks for posting that link, Larry. I had no idea that Joe Goldberg had passed away. He seems to have been a more interesting man than I had realized.

[Christiern]

Burns was not color blind when he totally left Hispanics out of his WWII series. He had to add them after someone of importance pointed out the omission. With all the money they heap upon this faux documentarian, he could afford the best research team available. Hell, he would only need to hire one or two experts in whatever field he is focusing on, have them read the script and point out omissions and errors. The fact is that it does not matter to Ken Burns whether something actually occurred, or not—he is only interested in how it looks. When his producers asked to borrow a photo of Lil Armstrong's first wedding, because "Mr. Burns loves that picture of Louis," I pointed out that the young man in the picture was not Louis, that this was her first wedding, and Louis was still in N.O. They thanked me and used the picture, moving the camera slowly to the man who wasn't Louis, while deliberately mis-identifying him. When, having seen part i, I questioned the narrative's assertion that Coleridge Taylor and Fletcher Henderson (I may have the wrong names here) used to write arrangements while traveling through Central Park in a taxi. One of Burns' head producers, Shoala Lynch, told me that they had found this 1920s clip of cars going through the park and that Burns wanted it included—so they just made something up.

I love Apple and have used its computers for close to 40 years, but I cannot forgive Steve Jobs—a man whom I admire immensely—for giving the idiotic label, "Ken Burns effect" to a generic pan of the camera across a still picture. Notice how the clueless interviewer in Mark's clip includes that tag in her introduction.

Imagine what real, dedicated, honest documentary film makers could do with just a fraction of the funding this little media-generated creep gets. As it is, many less endowed film makers have demonstrated that integrity and cinematic skill can produce better results than Burns with his mega funding and corporate support. There is definitely a parallel to be drawn between Burns and Marsalis.

[Christiern]

Paul Secor: "Thanks for posting that link, Larry. I had no idea that Joe Goldberg had passed away. He seems to have been a more interesting man than I had realized. "

I knew Joe Goldberg very well, we used to hang out together in the 1960s, when we both were doing work for Bob Weinstock. Bob paid $75 for liner notes until Joe offered to do them for $50. The result was that we all were reduced to the lower fee.

That's when I severed my friendship with Joe. Other than that, he was fun to be with and, yes, he had his interesting positive moments—more often than not.

[AllenLowe]

Moms, just read that David Blight lecture on the Civil War. Brilliant stuff, should be required reading for everybody here.

[musicplease22]

So why not try this with the Ken Burns series for a change in the same manner? Just turn off the sound, let the film run and put on your favorite jazz from the respective era yourself?

It's all there. Imspiring jazz stills and footage, sequences that do create an intense atmosphere at times...

Interesting.. I might have to try this.

[colinmce]

Speaking of this great footage that he mostly failed to use well, is there sound to go along with the video of Ornette and Don Cherry, and is it from the Five Spot in 1959? 'Cause seeing that and not hearing it just made me angry.

[Ken Dryden]

Given the origins of the term 'jazz', calling it "Ken Burns' Jazz" seems, um, entirely appropriate!

[Larry Kart]

David Blight is really onto something with his account of the power of "Lost Cause ideology" in American life. Don't want to derail this thread, but its workings on today's political/cultural landscape seem pretty obvious, nor do I think it's likely that we as people can get past this so deeply appealing (if you will)"construct."

[AllenLowe]

exactly.

Also enjoyed the Joe Goldberg piece and interview, though I always feel slightly discouraged when intelligent people say that jazz died with Coltrane. Goldberg's remarks in that respect showed that he had not really been listening for some time.

on the other hand Jazz of the 1950s is a great book. Wish I'd known that Goldberg was still around all those years. Sounds like an interesting guy, one of the lost critics of jazz (which seems to generally happen to the best ones we have, who get tired of the daily grind/compromise of music journalism).

Edited September 16, 2010 by AllenLowe

[MomsMobley]

As high level critic yourself, LK, you might enjoy this recent book by historian Gary Gallagher, at least the film parts--

http://www.amazon.com/Causes-Won-Lost-Forgotten-Hollywood/dp/0807832065

Sections on Civil War art might have more appeal to specialists. Gallagher irks some Lost Cause types because he's also military history expert, and they LIKE those books; Blight knows military history inside out too, of course, but is better known as social history, memory, etc--

http://www.amazon.com/Race-Reunion-Civil-American-Memory/dp/0674008197

David Blight is really onto something with his account of the power of "Lost Cause ideology" in American life. Don't want to derail this thread, but its workings on today's political/cultural landscape seem pretty obvious, nor do I think it's likely that we as people can get past this so deeply appealing (if you will)"construct."

[Larry Kart]

As high level critic yourself, LK, you might enjoy this recent book by historian Gary Gallagher, at least the film parts--

http://www.amazon.com/Causes-Won-Lost-Forgotten-Hollywood/dp/0807832065

Sections on Civil War art might have more appeal to specialists. Gallagher irks some Lost Cause types because he's also military history expert, and they LIKE those books; Blight knows military history inside out too, of course, but is better known as social history, memory, etc--

http://www.amazon.com/Race-Reunion-Civil-American-Memory/dp/0674008197

David Blight is really onto something with his account of the power of "Lost Cause ideology" in American life. Don't want to derail this thread, but its workings on today's political/cultural landscape seem pretty obvious, nor do I think it's likely that we as people can get past this so deeply appealing (if you will)"construct."

My local library has the Gallagher book. Will investigate.

[musicplease22]

I love Apple and have used its computers for close to 40 years, but I cannot forgive Steve Jobs—a man whom I admire immensely—for giving the idiotic label, "Ken Burns effect" to a generic pan of the camera across a still picture. Notice how the clueless interviewer in Mark's clip includes that tag in her introduction.

Imagine what real, dedicated, honest documentary film makers could do with just a fraction of the funding this little media-generated creep gets. As it is, many less endowed film makers have demonstrated that integrity and cinematic skill can produce better results than Burns with his mega funding and corporate support. There is definitely a parallel to be drawn between Burns and Marsalis.

So is the general consensus in the jazz community that he is a phony? He seems genuine enough in the interview that I linked to.

[Teasing the Korean]

So is the general consensus in the jazz community that he is a phony? He seems genuine enough in the interview that I linked to.

I'm not sure what the "jazz community" is in this century, but the consensus I've encountered is that the documentary contains some amazing footage but is seriously flawed in its opinions and presentations. And also that Ken Burns has a bad hair piece. I personally don't care for Burns's documentary style, regardless of subject matter, and the fact that he used this style to provide Wynton Marsalis with 20-hour-or-whatever platform to espouse his warped views leaves little of interest to me. Most of my friends who listen to jazz have generally agreed with this.

EDIT: The fact that they crammed 1960 to 2000 into a single episode is absurd, and to make it worse, 30 minutes of that episode were devoted to Duke's and Satchmo's funerals.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Teasing the Korean

[mjzee]

I love Apple and have used its computers for close to 40 years, but I cannot forgive Steve Jobs—a man whom I admire immensely—for giving the idiotic label, "Ken Burns effect" to a generic pan of the camera across a still picture. Notice how the clueless interviewer in Mark's clip includes that tag in her introduction.

Imagine what real, dedicated, honest documentary film makers could do with just a fraction of the funding this little media-generated creep gets. As it is, many less endowed film makers have demonstrated that integrity and cinematic skill can produce better results than Burns with his mega funding and corporate support. There is definitely a parallel to be drawn between Burns and Marsalis.

So is the general consensus in the jazz community that he is a phony? He seems genuine enough in the interview that I linked to.

The "jazz community" is much larger and more diverse than just those who post here. There are many, including myself, who enjoyed the series - who were greatly appreciative of the many clips provided, and also got a lot out of the talking head interviews (including Wynton's - turns out he's a much better teacher than composer or bandleader).

Ultimately, the series is a good resource. Most posters here are simply encouraging you to watch the series and form your own opinion.

[AllenLowe]

"The "jazz community" is much larger and more diverse than just those who post here"

I actually think the range of taste and opinions as expressed here is very representative of the jazz community/audience. Just read this thread.

[Teasing the Korean]

Was the jazz community unified in its condemnation of Ken Burns's bad hair piece?

[Dan Gould]

If it is a hairpiece, why would anyone wear such a thing?

Absent some evidence beyond your assertions, the fact that his haircut is so ridiculous is enough to tell me that it is his.