Moondog

[AllenLowe]

been listening to a bit of Moondog, and my impressions are:

his early and less formally arranged music is best; the later orchestra pieces (from Germany) are more gestures than ideas and suffer the same weakness as a lot of minimalist music - once the point is made the point is made, and certain kinds of repetition create neither tension nor a sense of time and space or depth but rather a sense of....repetition. The early things have a sense of excitement and discovery and clarity rather than simplicity - and the difference makes the later work, I think, seem empty, gimmicky, and naive in the negative sense of the word.

but I love the stuff from the late 1940s and from the 1950s. Overdubs, vocals, primitive backgrounds, imagination, sound effects.

And like Harry Partch, I think Moondog suffers from his lack of a real connection with the vernacular, even as he sees that vernacular as a source of inspiration and reference (though with Moondog it is more that he sees jazz as a vital life force while not really understanding the sources of its virtality).

on the other hand, I love his writing of narrative and verse, and actually, ultimately, find the life and writings, in many ways, to be more interesting than the music.

Edited September 14, 2010 by AllenLowe

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, that Honest Jon's set is real nice. Made me appreciate him a hell of a lot more.

[AllenLowe]

yeah, I just ordered it. Right now I have Moondog: Rare Material which is a mix of old and new.

[Joe]

Always loved that "Up Broadway" track from the Prestige STORY OF MOONDOG LP. At one level, it's just documentation, but, in the context of "vernacular", it shows what Moondog could do in terms of integrating that kind of vocabulary into his own music.

[Chalupa]

I only have the two Columbia LPs. I need to check out his early stuff. Thanks for the reminder.

[MomsMobley]

Harry Partch = Edgard Varese + Stan Freberg >>>> Moondog ...

My link (for JSngry)

... but early Moondog is pretty good/weird. Forget the later more formal crap, there are about 1000 contemporary composers of various nationalities and idioms better and more interesting, beginning with "Lumpy Gravy."

In a jazz related vein, everyone reading this should know more Coleridge Taylor-Perkinson, esp. this album, which is by no means that 'far out' but is highly accomplished & interesting--

My link

Alvin, you asked elsewhere about Henry Grimes and, uh... in my opinion, you wouldn't hire him for a session where you-- 1000% reasonably-- had some idea what you wanted to happen. (Fuck the fake "creative improv" schtick. If you were willing to just let it happen and be glad he's back... People are understandably wary of being 'critical' of HG but you want an answer... there it is.)

Re: the minimalist shuck, you have performance clowns but most of the people tagged as such have done much more. Hardcore minimalism and its cult-like adherents isn't worth bothering with when you can have silence or Roger Sessions instead. If you cut Philip Glass' discography down to 1/4th or less its current size, and excise all the horrible "rock" references... he'd be very good, sometimes better.

Finally, COMPOSITION >>>>>>>>> "free improvisation" don't kid yourself otherwise. (Mingus never did, even if he lacked self-control to realize all his intentions.)

[Chuck Nessa]

In a jazz related vein, everyone reading this should know more Coleridge Taylor-Perkinson, esp. this album, which is by no means that 'far out' but is highly accomplished & interesting--

My link

That would be Coleridge-Taylor Perkinson.

[AllenLowe]

thanks guys for the comments/suggestions - any relation to Samuel Coleridge Taylor?

[umum_cypher]

It's easy to love Moondog for a weekend. But personally I had difficulty stretching it out to a week.

[MomsMobley]

Correction noted, thank you! A really good disc though, as are-- I discovered-- Cedille's two African-American composer heritage albums I've heard. The trope of 'jazz is America's classical music' is so ingrained in the quasi-pop consciousness even by the piss poor standards of contemporary Am. classical standards, it seems our finest black composers are given short shrift.

In a jazz related vein, everyone reading this should know more Coleridge Taylor-Perkinson, esp. this album, which is by no means that 'far out' but is highly accomplished & interesting--

My link

That would be Coleridge-Taylor Perkinson.

[paul secor]

Out of curiosity, I bought Moondog's first Columbia LP when it was released and couldn't get into it because I felt the music didn't go anywhere. Years later, I bought the first OJC reissue. Went back to the Columbia and was able to accept it for what it was. I've since gotten into the second OJC and Sax Pax for a Sax. I just hear his music as Moondog music, and it has a certain charm for me.

edit - I do agree with some of what Allen said about the later work but, for me, the charm overrides the repetition and the naivete.

Edited September 16, 2010 by paul secor

[AllenLowe]

I like the narrative works - there's a piece by Harry Partch called "The Letter" which seems, to me, the perfect integration of voice and instruments, and there are things by Moondog which I feel the same way about. There is a spoken, sing-song quality which I like, and I also like the language, which is plain-spoken poetics, not in some pseudo, United Front, proletarian way but rather very deeply felt, rhythmically free yet satisfyingly earthbound; a bit Brechtian, if I may make a comparison. And it has given me some good ideas for my next project. I think Moondog is almost a better writer of text than music.

And "All is Lonliness" may be one of the most perfect recordings I have ever heard.

Edited September 16, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Christiern]

The first time I became aware of Moondog was when I saw an EP in a Reykjavík record store, around 1954. I think it was on a label owned by Woody Herman, can that be correct? I also used to pass by him several times a week, when he stood on the 6th Ave. sidewalk outside of Blackrock—a very tall, imposing figure wrapped in what looked like U.S. Army blankets and wearing a Viking helmet of sorts.

[jazztrain]

Chris:

It probably was "On the Streets of New York" which was issued as a 7-inch ep on Mars, which I believe was owned by Woody Herman.

The first time I became aware of Moondog was when I saw an EP in a Reykjavík record store, around 1954. I think it was on a label owned by Woody Herman, can that be correct? I also used to pass by him several times a week, when he stood on the 6th Ave. sidewalk outside of Blackrock—a very tall, imposing figure wrapped in what looked like U.S. Army blankets and wearing a Viking helmet of sorts.

[Christiern]

Thank you, that's exactly what it was, and how appropriate for Moondog to be on Mars!

[jazztrain]

Well, Saturn was already taken.

Thank you, that's exactly what it was, and how appropriate for Moondog to be on Mars!

[Chuck Nessa]

Moondog is an interesting cultural footnote. I will live with the Prestige sessions in my collection.

[mjzee]

We've had a few prior threads about Moondog. I'll never part with my copy of Moondog 2 (Columbia).

[Chuck Nessa]

We've had a few prior threads about Moondog. I'll never part with my copy of Moondog 2 (Columbia).

Better you should try some Ornette.

[mjzee]

We've had a few prior threads about Moondog. I'll never part with my copy of Moondog 2 (Columbia).

Better you should try some Ornette.

LOL. I don't want to hijack this thread. But REALLY, was Ornette soloing on Tenor Madness, or was he just trotting out his riffs and disregarding the song? I vote for the latter.

[AllenLowe]

Ornette's a genius. Never just played riffs, always played the song.

Edited September 17, 2010 by AllenLowe

[paul secor]

Ornette is a genius. And he never just played riffs. But he did/does play them at times. All improvising musicians have them - the best, like Ornette, have their own.

[AllenLowe]

yes, he invented his own.

I love riffs.

[musicmargaret]

About the ugly slap at Henry Grimes by "MomsMobley" (above), maybe YOU wouldn't hire him, but these days Roscoe Mitchell hires him, Marc Ribot hires him, Fred Anderson hired him up until the end, Cecil Taylor has hired him seven times in the past few years, and so many other great musicians continue to hire him, and in turn, Henry has hired Rashied Ali, Marshall Allen, Fred Anderson, Marilyn Crispell, Andrew Cyrille, Bill Dixon, Edward "Kidd" Jordan, David Murray, William Parker, and many more in the past few years. Marc Ribot called Henry the Cecil Taylor of the bass, and Roscoe Mitchell said that Henry is among the greatest improvisers living in the world today (and he has known a few), and Roscoe also called Henry's playing "exquisite." Of course, in your not-so-humble opinion, they're all crazy and don't have any idea what they're doing. But you go right on not hiring Henry Grimes, okay? Somehow he'll muddle through without you.

[Teasing the Korean]

Love the Epic EP with "Why Spend the Dark Night with You."