Chick Corea BN/Solid State Session

[romualdo]

Has the August 21, 1970 Corea/Braxton/Holland/Altschul session (Quartet piece Nos 1-3) ever been released on CD - was originally released on the BN LP Circulus (LA882)

It appears to be the only Corea BN/SS session not to have been digitalised.

I'm surprised it wasn't put on the Early Circle CD (84465) - that disc contains the 13 & 19 Oct, 1970 sessions & is only 55mins long

[David Ayers]

AFAIK it hasn't been on CD. It is three sides of the LP so there is a lot of it! Have you heard it? In my opinion it doesn't stand up too well overall so was never going to be a priority for CD. That said, it is a piece of genuine free-for-all avant-gardisme and is certainly of interest. I know others find more in it than I do.

[romualdo]

AFAIK it hasn't been on CD. It is three sides of the LP so there is a lot of it! Have you heard it? In my opinion it doesn't stand up too well overall so was never going to be a priority for CD. That said, it is a piece of genuine free-for-all avant-gardisme and is certainly of interest. I know others find more in it than I do.

No, I havn't heard it - I thought Circulus (US version) was a single LP & the three titles took up approximately 15mins but I realise now it's a 2 LP set with the quartet pieces taking up over 46mins - that's why they weren't put on the Early Circle CD!

Drone 22:25

Quartet Piece No. 1 16:13

Quartet Piece No. 2 17:33

Quartet Piece No. 3 12:25

Percussion Piece 5:52

[clifford_thornton]

I used to have the LPs (my 70s two-fer pressing was kind of noisy). I remember it being decent but, compared to the CBS and ECM sessions, not quite "there." But "Drone" is a very nice trio piece - that has been reissued somewhere, if I'm not mistaken.

[JohnS]

I used to have the twofer too. I agree with David that it didn't stand the test of time.

Was this the one with the unreadable yellow print on the jacket?

[king ubu]

I'm still hoping for a Mosaic Select!

I suggested that to them some years ago and in a (fairly) recent reply to another mail I sent, MC mentioned that they still have a Circle/Corea Solid State/whatever thing on their to do list!

Would be great!

[yul]

Great! Thumbs up for the select. But is there enough material for a three cd set? A few years back I suggested a 2CD conn including the following sessions. That would make only a 2 cd set. Wish they could fill the third disc with live recordings, maybe the japan (only?) cbs LP Live In German Concert (recorded in Iserlohn, Germany, November 28, 1970)...!!?? As far as I know, that would make The Complete Circle 1970 sessions...

Chick Corea Trio

Chick Corea (p) Dave Holland (b) Barry Altschul (d)

A&R Studios, NYC, April 7, 1970

• Flesh

• Toy Room

• Nefertiti

• Blue Connotation

Chick Corea Trio

Chick Corea (p, per) Dave Holland (b, per) Barry Altschul (d, per)

A&R Studios, NYC, April 8, 1970

• Rhymes

• Ballad, I

• Ballad, II

• Ballad, III

• Drone

Chick Corea Trio

Anthony Braxton (ss, cl, cbcl, per) Chick Corea (p, cel, per) Dave Holland (cello, g, per)

A&R Studios, NYC, August 13, 1970

• Duet For Bass And Piano, No. 1

• Duet For Bass And Piano, No. 2

• Dance For Clarinet And Piano, No. 1

• Dance For Clarinet And Piano, No. 2

• Chimes, Pt. 1

• Chimes, Pt. 2

The Circle

Anthony Braxton (as, ss, fl, cl, chimes) Chick Corea (p, cel, vib) Dave Holland (b, cello, g, per) Barry Altschul (d, woodblocks, bass mar)

A&R Studios, NYC, August 19, 1970

• Starp

• 73 deg Kelvin

• Ballad

• Percussion Piece

The Circle

Anthony Braxton (as, ss, cl, cbcl) Chick Corea (p, prepared p, bass mar, per) Dave Holland (b, g) Barry Altschul (d, b, per, vib, bass mar)

A&R Studios, NYC, August 21, 1970

• Quartet Piece, No. 1

• Quartet Piece, No. 2

• Quartet Piece, No. 3

[king ubu]

My suggestion was to add Corea's "other" trio album from the time, "Song of Singing" (other than the widely known "Now He Sings, Now He Sobs", that is).

[David Ayers]

Song of Singing is the first two sessions listed there, minus 'Drone' except on some CD versions. I think that album stands up OK, the rest I'm not so sure. As far as SoS goes I'd say go for one of the versions out there. 'Drone' is worth having though if it is a question of sound quality versus completeness, I wouldn't know what to advise. Still, if they do a Select, why not. In that case it will be all from the same label. Depending how you cut it, I make that five LPs worth, so three CDs seems about right - so it might happen.

[clifford_thornton]

I used to have the twofer too. I agree with David that it didn't stand the test of time.

Was this the one with the unreadable yellow print on the jacket?

Nah, that's Circulus, which includes Vitous/Haynes stuff as well as chamber trio work w/ clarinet and cello (Braxton/Holland). Like that one a little better than Circling In.

[jeffcrom]

I used to have the twofer too. I agree with David that it didn't stand the test of time.

Was this the one with the unreadable yellow print on the jacket?

Nah, that's Circulus, which includes Vitous/Haynes stuff as well as chamber trio work w/ clarinet and cello (Braxton/Holland). Like that one a little better than Circling In.

Clifford, you've got the titles reversed - Circling In has the Vitous/Haynes material, along with two Corea/Holland duets, two Corea/Braxton duets, a Braxton composition, and the excellent "Starp" by Holland. Circulus has "Drone" by the Corea/Holland/Altschul trio, the three long, improvised "Quartet Pieces" and the "Percussion Piece."

I'm going to play devil's advocate about the Circulus album just a little bit. It's not the best work by this quartet, but "Quartet Piece No. 1" is the best of the three quartet pieces, and it's pretty good, in my opinion. The other improvisations have some excellent moments, although they also have some pretty boring ones. Given the relatively small size of this group's output, I'm glad to have it all.

[romualdo]

I'm still hoping for a Mosaic Select!

great idea though you can pick up the majority of the material (minus the three quartet pieces) on various CD's (Early Circle CD probably the most elusive)

Edited September 16, 2010 by romualdo

[yul]

I still don’t comprehend how would you assemble a three cd select of Corea’s Circle and pre-Circle trio recordings if it really has to be all from the same label. Their BN material is by no means more than two CDs.

BTW, I’ve never understood why it’s too difficult to licence stuff from two or several different labels. It’s only mathematics after all, isn't it?

Could it possibly be easier in case of bigger Mosaic? In that case I would add the other Sony/CBS live album as well.

So how about a four disc set:

CD 1: Studio, trio recordings, April 1970 (BN)

CD 2: Studio, trio & quartet recordings, August 1970 (BN)

CD 3: Live In German Concert, November 1970 (Sony)

CD 4: Live, Gathering, March 1971 (Sony)

The Complete Chick Corea Trio & Circle Blue Note / Sony recordings

!!!???

[David Ayers]

I only did a rule-of-thumb calculation, based on five LPs equalling 3 CDs. If you worked out the times and it came out differently, fair enough. Whatever happens, Mosaic are unlikely to do a set from two labels - the contracts are more complicated.

PS I do like your idea of getting those Sony's back in print though!

Edited September 16, 2010 by David Ayers

[yul]

I had to look for the track lenghts and yes, I was wrong: The 1970 BN recordings do not fit into 2 discs. As you can see below, the total lenght of the quartet recordings is 73 mins which is just fine for one cd. However, some of the trio tracks are longer than I remembered, making the total lenght as long as 99 mins and that requires two discs. So hopefully we’ll see the select happening some day. And a decent Legacy edition of the November 1970 and March 1971 dates. Or a bigger Mosaic combining the studio & live material.

Chick Corea Trio

Chick Corea (p) Dave Holland (b) Barry Altschul (d)

A&R Studios, NYC, April 7, 1970

• Flesh 06:06

• Toy Room 05:51

• Nefertiti 07:05

• Blue Connotation 07:17

total: 26:19

Chick Corea Trio

Chick Corea (p, per) Dave Holland (b, per) Barry Altschul (d, per)

A&R Studios, NYC, April 8, 1970

• Rhymes 06:50

• Ballad, I 04:17

• Ballad, II 06:43

• Ballad, III 05:34

• Drone 22:20

total: 45:44

Chick Corea Trio

Anthony Braxton (ss, cl, cbcl, per) Chick Corea (p, cel, per) Dave Holland (cello, g, per)

A&R Studios, NYC, August 13, 1970

• Duet For Bass And Piano, No. 1 03:28

• Duet For Bass And Piano, No. 2 01:40

• Dance For Clarinet And Piano, No. 1 02:14

• Dance For Clarinet And Piano, No. 2 02:32

• Chimes, Pt. 1 10:20

• Chimes, Pt. 2 06:40

total: 26:54

The Circle

Anthony Braxton (as, ss, fl, cl, chimes) Chick Corea (p, cel, vib) Dave Holland (b, cello, g, per) Barry Altschul (d, woodblocks, bass mar)

A&R Studios, NYC, August 19, 1970

• Starp 05:20

• 73 deg Kelvin 09:12

• Ballad 06:43

• Percussion Piece 05:52

total: 27:07

The Circle

Anthony Braxton (as, ss, cl, cbcl) Chick Corea (p, prepared p, bass mar, per) Dave Holland (b, g) Barry Altschul (d, b, per, vib, bass mar)

A&R Studios, NYC, August 21, 1970

• Quartet Piece, No. 1 16:13

• Quartet Piece, No. 2 17:33

• Quartet Piece, No. 3 12:25

total: 46:11

[yul]

BTW, is the Japan only (???) quintet album The Sun (recorded September 1970) still property of EMI/Toshiba? I wonder if there's any possibility for a world wide edition...

Never heard this one. Can anyone tell how's the music: free, fusion or...? Is there any resemblance to the aforementioned trio / quartet material?

http://sudo.3.pro.tok2.com/Quest/cards/C/ChickCorea/index.html

[JSngry]

CREDITS (productions) : Produced by Teruo Nakamura

Recorded at "Up Surge Studio" in New York City, September 14, 1970

Jack DeJonette appears courtesy of Milestone Records

CREDITS (musicians) : Chick Corea: piano Steve Grossman: tenor saxophone, chinese musette Dave Holland: bass Jack DeJonette: drums Steve Jackson: percussion TRACKS (total time 35:36) : 1. Moon Dance (6:42) [steve Grossman] 2. Slumber (11:13) [Dave Liebman] 3. The Sun, Part 1 (9:03) [Chick Corea] 4. The Sun, Part 2 (2:34) [Chick Corea] 5. The Moon (6:04) [Chick Corea]

Doesn't look like fusion to me.

Actually, it looks like a potentially invaluable "historical document"...kinda like that Sadao Watanabe Vanguard side, only with a horn player who could hang...

[Chuck Nessa]

An outside chance of maybe.

[JSngry]

Well, I don't necessarily equate "historical document" with "historical musical document"...just saying that there was this whole NYC (mostly) White/Jewish post-Trane loft scen going in and around the then-Miles band orb, and that Circle wove its way out of that environment. The unedited Miles Fillmore sessions give a tste of it, but definitely through Miles' lens. This sound like it could be what was going on before the lens was put in front of it.

A lot of music that I don't get particularly excited over came out of tht scene, but I've oftne wanted a document of the scene itself in its own time. That Watanabe sides was, I thought, as close as I was going to get w/o somebody dumping some personal tapes out somewhere, but Grossman...Grossman away from both Miles & Elvin is storied to have been a total firebreathing, coke-fueled, sax demon when left alone to be one. This looks like it might be - correction, could be - that.

I'd pay a fair price to find out, just because.

[Chuck Nessa]

If I have the bucks I'll spend it elsewhere.

[JSngry]

I probably would too...that's why I'm kinda pissed that it doesn't appear to have been blogged yet...

[sambrasa]

BTW, is the Japan only (???) quintet album The Sun (recorded September 1970) still property of EMI/Toshiba? I wonder if there's any possibility for a world wide edition...

Never heard this one. Can anyone tell how's the music: free, fusion or...? Is there any resemblance to the aforementioned trio / quartet material?

http://sudo.3.pro.tok2.com/Quest/cards/C/ChickCorea/index.html

One side is totally out avantgarde, second is more inside, let's say freebop with hints of what Miles was doing at that time.