Sonny Rollins 80th birthday concert in NYC

[Larry Kart]

Don't have the Henderson album anymore myself, so I can't cite specific tracks/passages. McBride does get hired a lot, so what do I know?

[vegheadjones]

I think McBride is a huge talent with a big beautiful sound, myself.

Personally, I completely agree. Aside from seeing him many times in many settings, I was lucky enough to be at the Beacon show last Friday. The trio with Sonny and Haynes on "In My Solitude" was wonderful.

[AllenLowe]

I have heard complaints that Roy Haynes has become something of an overly-intrusive drummer.

just wondering..............

[Mark Stryker]

I have heard complaints that Roy Haynes has become something of an overly-intrusive drummer.

just wondering..............

My two cents: I've heard Roy twice in the last three months, once with his own band last week and once in June with Chick Corea, Kenny Garrett and Christian McBride and I could not disagree more with that line of complaint. He sounded amazing both times, completely locked in, listening, having a conversation with the rest of the band. I suppose you could say he's a busy drummer -- he's always been busy -- but to me it's so musical and creative that the word intrusive is badly misplaced.

[medjuck]

I have heard complaints that Roy Haynes has become something of an overly-intrusive drummer.

just wondering..............

My two cents: I've heard Roy twice in the last three months, once with his own band last week and once in June with Chick Corea, Kenny Garrett and Christian McBride and I could not disagree more with that line of complaint. He sounded amazing both times, completely locked in, listening, having a conversation with the rest of the band. I suppose you could say he's a busy drummer -- he's always been busy -- but to me it's so musical and creative that the word intrusive is badly misplaced.

I saw him about a year ago with his own group and didn't find him intrusive-- though you could tell he was the leader. BTW I also found his group's sound quite distinctive. Maybe I don't hear enough contemporary jazz but I thought they had created their own sound which I really liked.

[Tom Storer]

I think Haynes's quartet has been one of the most distinctive small bands in jazz for many years, thanks to their excellent arrangements and high quality of interaction. As Mark says, Roy has always been busy, but IMO always tasteful and respectful of other musicians. I saw them last year with Jaleel Shaw playing sax. It was a killer set and I didn't notice that Roy had gotten "intrusive." If anything he's less busy, with a lighter touch and more streamlined--he is in his mid-80's, after all. His rhythmic mind is as alert and creative as ever, but his arms can't be as strong as they were.

Starting back almost a quarter-century ago, here are CDs documenting the Haynes quartet (as opposed to other configurations he puts together for one-off projects):

True or False (1986) with Ralph Moore, tenor sax; David Kikoski, piano; Ed Howard, bass.

When It Haynes, It Roars (1993) with Craig Handy, tenor sax; David Kikoski, piano; Ed Howard, bass.

Homecoming (1994) with Craig Handy, tenor sax; David Kikoski, piano; Ed Howard, bass.

Fountain of Youth (2004) with Marcus Strickland, saxophones; Martin Berejano, piano; John Sullivan, bass.

Whereas (2006) with Jaleel Shaw, saxophones; Robert Rodriguez, piano; John Sullivan, bass.

Somewhere in there, not sure if it was in between Moore and Handy or after Handy, he had Don Braden on tenor sax, and he sounded great in the group.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Tom Storer

[Larry Kart]

Roy Haynes is Roy Haynes. If you're a musician and he's too busy for you, go play with someone else. He hasn't been too busy for a lot of great players, quite the contrary. And never IIRC for this listener.

[AllenLowe]

allright guys, didn't want to start a storm, though I know there's often a tendency for drummers who become leaders to change their role in the band. I mean, look what happened to Ringo. Started singing on everything.........

and the source of the above impression was just a friend, but someone with whom I generally agree, musically speaking.

Edited September 17, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Tom Storer]

I know there's often a tendency for drummers who become leaders to change their role in the band.

Yeah, but Haynes has been a leader for decades. But OK, OK. The Roy Haynes Defense League will let you off the hook.

[Caravan]

It should have been Henry Grimes. McBride manages to almost spoil the whole thing with his undifferentiated and grossly over-amplified anti-swing.

[AllenLowe]

can Grimes still play changes?

[Caravan]

Why not? Besides, did Ornette and Newk "play the changes" there? They surely went far beyond.

[AllenLowe]

not the same thing as a blues - if Rollins calls Rain Check Grimes can't just blow; and more than one musician will tell you about going back to changes after years of doing otherwise (there's even a quote from Jimmy Garrison somewhere, talking about this very problem).

Edited September 20, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Caravan]

Grimes (or Haden) surely wouldn't have been as much of a pain in the ass as McBride, who manages to spoil the whole thing singlehanded (or rather with both his hands) with his stiff and rigid anti-swing.

[musicmargaret]

"It should have been Henry Grimes" ... Henry played in the Guelph Jazz Festival (Ontario) that night. But thanks!

[musicmargaret]

"Can Grimes still play changes?" Why don't you come to some Henry Grimes concerts? He certainly can if he wants to and if the situation calls for it. Try watching this YouTube video of Henry playing the standard "I'll Get By As Long as I Have You" with Marc Ribot and Chad Taylor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ida-I_g3Hg.

But why do people like you always want to impose the "playing changes" test on great improvisers who've long since gone beyond that? This is like asking someone to prove he can write poetry by reciting the alphabet.

By the way, here are three upcoming Henry Grimes events for those who are genuinely interested and are near NYC or Cleveland:

Thursday, Feb. 17th, music from 8 p.m: The Roscoe Mitchell Quartet w/ Dave Burrell, Henry Grimes, and Tani Tabbal (preceded by Roscoe Mitchell & David Wessel duo), at Roulette, 2O Greene St. betw. Canal & Grand St's, New York City, 212-219-8242, http://www.roulette.org/events/upcoming, roulette@roulette.org; and

Thursday, March 17th, 6-8 p.m. (pre-event reception at 5:3O): Henry Grimes in panel discussion with interdisciplinary scholars about Albert Ayler, at Case Western Reserve University, Thwing Center Ballroom, 11111 Euclid Ave., Cleveland, Ohio, free and open to the public, registration recommended, 216-368-266O, http://tinyurl.com/3y6bcmo, info@music.case.edu, thwing@case.edu. This event is held in conjunction with Marc Ribot’s Spiritual Unity playing music by and for Albert Ayler at the Cleveland Museum of Art the next day:

Friday, March 18th, 2O11, 7:3O p.m: Marc Ribot & Spiritual Unity, w/ Roy Campbell, Jr., Henry Grimes, and Chad Taylor, Cleveland Museum of Art, 1115O East Blvd., Cleveland, Ohio, 216-421-734O, -735O, http://www.clevelandart.org, http://tinyurl.com/3379jh5, info@clevelandart.org.

Later in March, there will also be concerts in Detroit and Chicago, details to be announced.

And Henry's Web site is here: http://www.henrygrimes.com.

I probably should have posted these events somewhere else on Organissimo, but I can't seem to find where. Advice on that, anyone? Also, I tried to attach a photo, but it just isn't working, but here's a beautiful high-res photo of Henry taken in January by Pete Gannushkin (downtownmusic.net): http://www.henrygrimes.com/Photos/GrimesHenryByPGannushkin2011.jpg.

[J.A.W.]

I probably should have posted these events somewhere else on Organissimo, but I can't seem to find where. Advice on that, anyone?

This topic is about Sonny Rollins' 80th birthday concert. If you want to post about concerts related to Henry Grimes, please start a new topic in this forum ("Live Shows & Festivals").

Topics on artists belong in um... "Artists", so why don't you start a Henry Grimes topic there?

[EyeSpeech]

I was not fotunate enough to see the 80th birthday concert, but did catch Rollins live a couple times. The first was at Carnegie Hall in '93. Amazing show. I was sitting up in the nosebleed seats, but even from up there you could feel the power and intensity of his playing. I remember Bob Cranshaw was the bassist that night.

[Tom Storer]

But why do people like you always want to impose the "playing changes" test on great improvisers who've long since gone beyond that? This is like asking someone to prove he can write poetry by reciting the alphabet.

Yeah, people like Allen are just the worst! Them and their ilks!

But seriously, I don't think Allen was imposing any tests. Someone suggested that Henry Grimes would have been a good fit for Sonny Rollins' 80th birthday concert, and Allen speculated that, IF he were no longer in the habit of playing changes, maybe he wouldn't have been a good fit. For that specific concert. I perceived no judgment of Grimes' playing in a "non-changes" context.

On the other hand, you make a judgment in the other direction by implicitly putting down "changes" when you characterize Grimes as having "gone beyond that," as if mastering harmony were merely a way-station that "great" improvisers "go beyond."

[JSngry]

I think she meant that people who go beyond playing changes are one type of great improvisers, not that going beyond changes is a prerequisite for being a great improviser.

[Hardbopjazz]

In an email to a friend of mine, there may be a good chance that part of this 80th birthday concert getting released in the fall. I would hope it is the Sonnymoon For Two with Ornette. But Sonny may think differently.

[danasgoodstuff]

Sonny ALWAYS thinks differently...as does Ornette, each in their own different way.

[AllenLowe]

just to reiterate my point (and thanks, Tom, for clarifying this), there was a fascinating quote somewhere by Jimmy Garrison, in which he expresses insecurity about playing changes after playing in more open forms for so long (and actually I know exactly what he means from personal experience; it's a much different kind of discipline). So Margaret, as usual, sees only what she wants to see. I was simply pointing out that things don't always jell if there are stylistic conflicts.

Edited March 1, 2011 by AllenLowe

[Aggie87]

Slight tangent -

Sonny will be receiving a National Medal of Arts award from President Obama at the White House tomorrow!

USA Today article

Way to go Sonny!