EKE BBB Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 (edited) Extracted from a Storyville release: "In the 1930´s radio was the mass medium for dissemination of music in the US. Although 78 rpm records and even player piano rolls were widely available, the proliferation of broadcast spurred the demand for new musical performances. Since this period coincided with the post-depression years, smaller stations in particular needed a cost effective way to air fresh material. The transcriptions companies met this need. Transcriptions were typically sixteen inch discs recorded at 33-1/3 rpm by the companies from original performances for which they contracted. They were not intended for consumer release and were offered to radio stations on a rental basis, often on an exclusive basis in their markets. In 1934-35 and the years following, transcription labels such us Standard, World, Thesaurus, Keystone, Sesac, MacGregor, Associated, Langworth and Miller made their first appearance. Keystone later acquired rights to and issued many Standard recordings. In February of 1935 radio station WNEW in NY presented Martin Block and his "Make Believe Ballroom" program, claimed to be the first of the disc jockey shows. As this type of broadcast began to proliferate, the demands for original material provided on transcription gradually diminished over the ensuing years and the business was no longer viable...." I´d like to hear some comments from our knowledgeable members on this type of releases, these trancription labels, the importance of this stuff in the development of jazz.... Thanks in advance! BTW: which are your favorite transcriptions reissues? Edited December 15, 2003 by EKE BBB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Well, I'm not one of the more knowledgeable members here, but I do have some transcription recordings (some in Mosaic sets, like the Kenton, the Peggy Lee, some on LPs), and I guess my favorites are the various Tadd Dameron broadcasts. I like the ones after Fats Navarro had left the band just as much as the ones with Fats. Great music! People like Rudy Williams, Kai Winding, Allen Eager in the band, later the "big ten" groups with the likes of Sahib Shihab, Cecil Payne, Miles... some wonderful music! (Fantasy, btw, released a CD of some of this material - no big ten stuff, however - which has better sound quality than the other releases I have) ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 I assume you're not including airchecks in your definition? This may be a dumb question and I assume I probably ought to know better but why are they called transcriptions? Is it because they were "transcribed" or "transposed" from the radio station to record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 I believe that the transcriptions were studio recordings, which were distributed by the record companies to radio stations, but were not intended for sale. Airchecks were recordings of live performances broadcast on the radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 I think the implication of "transcription" was that they were using recorded music to simulate a live performance, replete w/announcers, etc. Remember, in those days, most everything WAS live, as foreign a concept as that might be to us today. I think most people just assumed that if you heard music on the radio and it wasn't a record you could buy at the dime sore or hear on the jukebox, then it was live. Even more astounding is that the providers of the content often felt a moral compunction to mention somewhere (usually at the tail end of the broadcast) that the material WAS recorded and not live! I don't think there ws any legal reason for doing so. Things ain't what they used to be, that's for sure... Hindsight Records released a slew of these things over the years. The Claude Thornhill might be my favorite. Great band, great playing, and captured in really clear, detailed sound. Priceless, at times. I think it was Ajax who released an LP collection of transcriptions of Basie w/Pres & Don Byas (not together though, I don't think). That's some pretty exquisite stuff too. What I need to get into but never have is the whole "A Date With The Duke" series of transcriptions. I keep hearing such good things about it, but there's jus SO much of it... The transcriptions often offered a clearer sound than commercial studio recordings, I think, and are especially valuable for checking out the intiricaies and/or specifics of various larger ensembles. You can hear the details better, at least sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 The transcriptions often offered a clearer sound than commercial studio recordings, I think, and are especially valuable for checking out the intiricaies and/or specifics of various larger ensembles. You can hear the details better, at least sometimes. Yeah..a lot of them sound better than the corresponding commercial releases. I'm curious as to why that is? What were they doing different from the studios used by the record companies? And weren't they sometimes the same studios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 I agree with Jim and Harold regarding the sound quality. A couple of good examples could be the Fats Waller Associated Transcriptions (1935-39) or the Art Tatum Standard Transcriptions (1935-45) released by Storyville, with a MUCH BETTER sound than the commercial recordings of this period! Besides these two, another favorite of mine are the Duke Ellington Transcriptions from 1946-47. An orchestra in a stage of change, but a great one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted December 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 And I think kh1958 nailed it and that´s the correct definition. But, if my memory serves me right, there are a few reissues released as "transcriptions" which were recorded as live broadcastings. Must check this assertion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 I believe that the transcriptions were studio recordings, which were distributed by the record companies to radio stations, but were not intended for sale. Airchecks were recordings of live performances broadcast on the radio. uh, so the Navarro/Dameron stuff does not belong here! Jim, are these Thornhill things still available? I recently bought a cheap Thornhill one disc comp. (Past Perfect) without any specifics given. I will start a thread on this once I have it with me in front of a working computer, and ask if anyone has more info on that - might be, partially at least, transcriptions. ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Yes, the Thornhills are available, I still see them about in my cd traveling. The one to get in my opinion is the HEP cd of 1947 transcriptions: better sound, fantastic performances. I would say my favorite transcriptions may be the Ellington World Transcriptions that are available on Circle cds remastered by Jack Towers. FANTASTIC. Many others in this series on Circle are well worth hearing: Jonah Jones (with Ike!), Sammy Price, Bill Challis, Chick Webb, John Kirby. . . . World had wonderful original sound that is transferred very well to cd in this series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Yeah Lon...the Circle label stuff sounds great as does the Fats stuff Eke mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Lon, thanks! Can you provide a link to the Ellington discs? I think the only way to get them in stores here is to buy the Definitive edition, which I do not intend to do (they're far overpriced here anyway, 3CDs would be around 45$) Thanks, ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Ubu, these are the Duke Ellington transcriptions discs that are available on Circle Records. This is from the Jazzology site: http://www.ettinger.net/cgi-bin/cart/cart....chant=jazzology These are great Duke sessions with excellent sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 Thanks brownie, I'll put them on my ever-growing list! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 I recall finding a very interesting site talking about the history of Transcription discs a few years back...of course I cannot find that site now! The aforementioned Hindsight discs are very interesting. They have excellent and fairly cheap 3 cd box sets of Ellington in 46-47, Artie Shaw (1938-39?) and Harry James (1938-48?) If you like Kenton (And who here doesn't? ) there are some interesting early Kenton discs. Have a Glen Gray/Casa Loma disc that is pretty good as well. On of my favorite Circle cds is the John Kirby and Orch. with Maxine Sullivan 1940-41 Loch Lomond. Oh, and Circle put out the Bill Dodge Orchestra disc,1934..... with is Benny Goodman, and Bunny Berigan! Probably my favorite Transcription recordings! I had read Transciptions would frequently be used as time fillers on week-ends, and late at night, to fill in for 15-30 minute shows(Perhaps for cancelled shows, or after sporting events that ended at the wrong time?)And often (Like the Bill Dodge disc) would be anonymous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrdlu Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 There are some superb transcriptions of Fats Waller (fine performance-wise and sound-wise), and they remove the 3.5 min 78 time limit, though mostly he sticks to the 78 length, or plays medleys where no single tune is very long. These were made for the Muzak company, if memory serves. There are some from 1935 and some from 1939. One set had some added reverb/fake stereo which one should watch out for, but the same recordings are also available without the reverb effect. Also, I recently found a copy of the MGM 3 LP "Benny Goodman Treasure Chest" set. Sadly, this collection has not been reissued on CD. These are transcriptions from 1937 through 1939 of a lot of the best of Benny's repertoire, and the performance quality and sound are excellent. There are a few rare items in this set, such as a duet between Jess Stacy and Lionel, with Lionel playing two-finger piano in the upper register at lightning speed. There are also many trio and quartet items, including a version of "Avalon" where the orchestra most surprisingly comes in at the very end. Finally, I would mention a version of one of my favorites, "Mr Bach Goes To Town", with a wonderful clarinet choir with two bass clarinets. (There is also a regular studio version of that piece.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 I just got the first two volumes of the Ellington Circle series, and man, you guys are right about the sound--amazing! Great version of "Summertime" with Al Hibbler on vocals. Think I'm going to have to build a new wing onto the house just to store the Ellingtonia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 it's likely that they sound so good because they are like master recordings - if stored correctly and still in good shape - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Christensen Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Here is my favorite: Teddy Wilson Sextet: The Complete Associated Transcriptions 1944. Storyville STCD 8236. Great CD with Emmett Berry, Benny Morton, Edmond Hall, Teddy Wilson, Slam Stewart, Big Sid Catlett. Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 These were made for the Muzak company, if memory serves. Is this where "muzak" (the music) originally came from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Yep. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A497856 Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 These were made for the Muzak company, if memory serves. Is this where "muzak" (the music) originally came from? As many small headed folk say, "Sooprize, sooprize"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmilovan Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 (edited) I agree with Jim and Harold regarding the sound quality. A couple of good examples could be the Fats Waller Associated Transcriptions (1935-39) or the Art Tatum Standard Transcriptions (1935-45) released by Storyville, with a MUCH BETTER sound than the commercial recordings of this period! Something about fidelty of those discs: I think it's becuse different recording techinique was used while recording transcriptions. Material was often recorded on 33 rpm lacquier discs - quiet, more precise, simllar to LP record, small groove discs usually around 16 inch in diameter and with no usual 78rpm disturbances such as surface noise, no 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 minute time limit etc. Later, in the beggining of 1940's, as Chris Albertson pointed out somewhere, the same techinque was used to record "safe" recordings of regular 78rpm discs, alternate takes and so on. That's how famous Billie Holiday 4 minutes long alternative take of "All Of Me" survived till nowadays. And it is sonicaly perfect! The most interesting thing is that, on this take, you can hear some weak but audible rhytmic repetitions/patterns/squeaks (probably rumble noise), and, correct me if I'm wrong - those noises have 33 rpm "feel". It was so strange to me, I always thought all those recordings before WWII were recorded at 78rpm... Now I know the story... Edited April 12, 2005 by mmilovan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmilovan Posted April 15, 2005 Report Share Posted April 15, 2005 (edited) Additional story to this would be - how 33.33 rpm "format" is old: it goes back to end of 1920's and synchronization of first sound movies. So transcription records format (exactly the same 16 inch disc) probably derives from there. In my local record store they have some very interesting 16 inch transcription disc from (around) late 1940's I think, for VOA. They have it on old vintage "Victrola" and the whole thing serves as (not very succesfull or original) decoration to shop window. Crap... Label says these are recordings of Les Paul with his combo. Are they live or strictly transcriptions, God knows. But, unpleasant shop assistant didn't want to talk about borrowing it for transfer or to sell it. Edited April 15, 2005 by mmilovan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.