Letterman Craps All Over Jazz Again

[J.A.W.]

As was said before, this is a weird thread...

[Christiern]

And is known in some circles as the Mother of Ring Tones.

"She turned a simple single-note repeat into a pocket symphony." — National Geographic

[Guest Wallace]

Might I remind all that this is a serious forum.

(You dont experience rapid-fire exchange of vapid one-liners on CLASSICAL MUSIC forums do you?)

Leave the comedy to David.

Also:

Eccentrics only tolerated if kept on a tight rein or if they manage to come up with the goods.

[Larry Kart]

Leaving aside the numerous cheap remarks that are flooding my brain, Ringwald sings, sort of:

Her father is/was a jazz pianist, one Bob Ringwald:

The Tristano influence is obvious.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Might I remind all that this is a serious forum.

(You dont experience rapid-fire exchange of vapid one-liners on CLASSICAL MUSIC forums do you?)

Leave the comedy to David.

Also:

Eccentrics only tolerated if kept on a tight rein or if they manage to come up with the goods.

Not a good idea to take an open swipe at the owner of the board who communicated his desire to see you actively participate but asked that you put the brakes on the confrontational tone.

[donz5]

Dale I can explain - he's a long-time friend, a fine pianist who back in the 70s published Texas Jazz Monthly, a superb-on-a-shoestring repository of intersting interviews with a lot of now-dead Texas jazz figures along with the usual record reviews & club reports. We see each other on gigs from time to time, and I've mentioned this board to him more than once as a place to talk about jazz & other things. So that explains that, at least to me. The guy's had a standing invite, and he finally came in the house.

The other guy, all I know for sure is that he keep a Letterman database, & has a CD for sale on CD Baby that's described as "Melodic pop-rock in a progressive mode, with tastefully fluid guitars, multilayered vocals, and intricate arrangements". What brought him here, I haven't a clue. Maybe he Googles "Letterman" in his spare time to add to his database. I honestly don't know.

"The other guy" was prompted by your long-time friend's hyperbolic and factually false claims re jazz having been "boycotted" on the show for "decades" from another forum. "The other guy" then corrected the record. And your long-time friend, to his good credit, eventually retracted his initial "boycott" claim.

Why folks here continue to focus on personalities rather than the discussion at hand here escapes me. Belittling me does nothing to further said discussion nor do they alter the facts.

And please note that I didn't come here to personally promote anything. Nor have I asked you to do that for me.

Beyond that, thanks for the warm welcome. I look forward to participating in other threads that spark my interest. If that's ok with you.

[donz5]

I don't know about hostility what I find extremely odd is that first someone came out of nowhere to inform us that Letterman recently crapped all over jazz but in fact regularly does so, then someone else came out of nowhere to tell us that no he doesn't. And neither of them seem interested in doing anything else here.

The rest of it was just standard O-stuff. Debating the merits of each, with some inside-baseball type speculations thrown in, and with our own unique flavor.

I'll reply to this as well before I get back to work:

Had the thread been about Cecil Taylor's early '70s Jazz Ensemble, or his classic work with Rivers and Cyrille, I wouldn't have chimed in with a list of jazz performers who have appeared on Letterman.

Had the thread been about comparing Miles Davis's original Nonet live recordings at Birdland and their subsequent studio recordings with Mulligan's "Rebirth of the Blues" project, I wouldn't have mentioned Letterman.

Had the thread been about Dixieland jazz's influence on the Chicago Art Ensemble, I wouldn't have stuck my nose in with Letterman stats.

Or had the thread been about Metheney's masterful takedown of Kenny G, I wouldn't have added my two cents on Letterman.

But here was a thread specifically about Letterman, and since I kinda knew something about it, I contributed. Before I posted, there were some random comments on various jazz players who had appeared on the show, so I figured I'd provide a more comprehensive list (and, to my great shame, I neglected to include Miles Davis, who performed on the show on December 11, 1987).

And then the reactions -- not to the lists but to the provider of those lists. Why that direction ain't my turf.

[Bright Moments]

i say a "do-over" is in order!

Welcome to the board donz5!

[AllenLowe]

donz, don't worry about it. Actually, I'm just glad when the board's hostility is directed at someone other than me.

[dalemcfarland]

Actually, I signed up in '07. (I've visited occasionally to read stuff but never posted anything.) The work has really dried up here lately so - proving idle hands are the devil's workshop - I finally decided to dive in out of nowhere. Sorry if it evolved into confrontation.

If I'd been gigging the other night, I wouldn't have heard Letterman's wisecrack in the first place. So I blame those bastards on Wall Street... but that's a topic for a different forum.

Edited August 2, 2010 by dalemcfarland

[AllenLowe]

weird thing is, I hate jazz, too. Who doesn't?

[donz5]

donz, don't worry about it. Actually, I'm just glad when the board's hostility is directed at someone other than me.

My work is done here, then.

[JSngry]

But here was a thread specifically about Letterman, and since I kinda knew something about it, I contributed. Before I posted, there were some random comments on various jazz players who had appeared on the show, so I figured I'd provide a more comprehensive list (and, to my great shame, I neglected to include Miles Davis, who performed on the show on December 11, 1987).

Ok, then, benefit of the doubt- intent was innocuous and honest enough.

"Tone" however, was kinda weird...kinda came across as confrontational, an intended smackdown, not as a friendly desire to correct the record. I still don't see what the hell difference it makes in the "real world", but that's true about 97% of the stuff that gets discussed here, so, whatever.

If we can move on, let's.

But btw - it's Art Ensemble of Chicago, not Chicago Art Ensemble. I believe the latter name might have been used originally, but by the time the recordings started been released, it had changed. Just to let you know.

donz, don't worry about it. Actually, I'm just glad when the board's hostility is directed at someone other than me.

My work is done here, then.

No, there's that Herbie/Tristano thread now...

Nice try, though. Almost worked!

[AllenLowe]

it's ok, I take the abuse so that others may live their lives in peace and contentment.

.

Edited August 2, 2010 by AllenLowe

[donz5]

You raise a good point -- "tone" is in the eye of the reader. If I came across as confrontational, that wasn't my intent. This is where I think face-to-face discussions avoid such confusion, since we can all see our tails wagging.

re Art Ensemble of Chicago v Chicago Art Ensemble: You're right, of course. I remember first seeing them in college in 1971 (I think I taped their concert, but it's been a long time ago; I did tape the Taylor/Rivers/Cyrille concert that followed and still have that somewhere in this fire-trap), but I don't remember what they called themselves then.

I'll catch up on the Hancock/Tristano thread and see if I can come up with something snarky about Wayne Shorter v. Wayne Marsh.

[kenny weir]

Funny how the things that happen in online forums, funny how words and tone get all jumbled.

Funny, too, the number of times well-meaning newcomers lob into a well-established forum and get a somewhat more acerbic welcome than they expect. No blame from me on either side, but I wonder what they expect? That we all sit around chuffing on pipes, wearing slippers and dispensing jazz bonhomie? Naw. That's just Allen.

Edited August 3, 2010 by kenny weir

[AllenLowe]

yes, I am feeling very mellow these days. I forgive everyone. Except Couw.

Edited August 3, 2010 by AllenLowe

[.:.impossible]

This is the happiest ending a girl could have ever imagined.

Yay.

[JSngry]

Or one of them, anyways,,,

http://www.momlogic.com/2008/07/is_a_happy_ending_cheating.php

[bertrand]

Um, how exactly did you stumble across that one, Jim

Bertrand.

[JSngry]

"happy ending" is a phrase that has long had many implications....

[BruceH]

donz, don't worry about it. Actually, I'm just glad when the board's hostility is directed at someone other than me.

Damn you, Allen!!!

[jlhoots]

Herbie Hancock on Letterman last night.

The whole thing was terrible.

Herbie's attempt at a jazz solo had nothing to do with the pedestrian blues that was going on.

SAD!!

[thedwork]

Herbie Hancock on Letterman last night.

The whole thing was terrible.

Herbie's attempt at a jazz solo had nothing to do with the pedestrian blues that was going on.

SAD!!

It's really too bad that you watch that and have nothing but negative things to say. It is completely your loss. I thought it sounded really good. And in a more natural live context I bet it'd stretch out and be much better even. Tedeschi is a frickin' monster singer (though I personally could do without her guitar playing...). Damn she's great.

You can come at this w/ the purist attitude and wish that herbie was still playing classic quintet stuff. And you can come at this w/ the opposite purist attitude and get down on herbie for not constantly playing more "creatively" and pushing some personally idealized envelope.

Or you can come at this w/ an open mind and hear this as a funky, soul/blues number played by a bunch of killin' musicians having a great time being fronted by a monster singer. How you look at it is your choice.

And this is not to say that everyone has to 'like' this tune or style. Not liking it is fine. But it feels to me that the way you are 'hating' on this tune/performance/herbie here, there's some kind of agenda being pushed instead of just saying "I don't care for the soul/pop thing here." If you don't like it, that's cool. But writing "the whole thing is terrible... SAD!!!... herbie's attempt at a jazz solo." Herbie doesn't attempt a jazz solo. and besides, this wasn't a jazz tune. "attempt?" give that shit a rest.

Edited August 5, 2010 by thedwork

[jlhoots]

Herbie Hancock on Letterman last night.

The whole thing was terrible.

Herbie's attempt at a jazz solo had nothing to do with the pedestrian blues that was going on.

SAD!!

It's really too bad that you watch that and have nothing but negative things to say. It is completely your loss. I thought it sounded really good. And in a more natural live context I bet it'd stretch out and be much better even. Tedeschi is a frickin' monster singer (though I personally could do without her guitar playing...). Damn she's great.

You can come at this w/ the purist attitude and wish that herbie was still playing classic quintet stuff. And you can come at this w/ the opposite purist attitude and get down on herbie for not constantly playing more "creatively" and pushing some personally idealized envelope.

Or you can come at this w/ an open mind and hear this as a funky, soul/blues number played by a bunch of killin' musicians having a great time being fronted by a monster singer. How you look at it is your choice.

And this is not to say that everyone has to 'like' this tune or style. Not liking it is fine. But it feels to me that the way you are 'hating' on this tune/performance/herbie here, there's some kind of agenda being pushed instead of just saying "I don't care for the soul/pop thing here." If you don't like it, that's cool. But writing "the whole thing is terrible... SAD!!!... herbie's attempt at a jazz solo." Herbie doesn't attempt a jazz solo. and besides, this wasn't a jazz tune. "attempt?" give that shit a rest.

Thanks for your pleasant reply - "shit", etc.

I should have said IMHO.

I didn't think the jazzy 4 bar solos had anything to do with the rest of what was happening.

Appears that only you & I care anyway.