Keynote label

[Tjazz]

About $100

http://www.amazon.com/Keynote-Jazz-Collection-1941-1947/dp/B00GTX9WSS/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1388081974&sr=1-1&keywords=keynote+jazz+collection

Amazon.uk

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GTX9WSS/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

[Big Beat Steve]

So ... after that box set had zigzagged from "available on..." to "not currently available" to "available from ..." and now finally to "in stock and available" on various Amazon sites (buying directly from FS would not have yielded much benefit due to added shipping costs from Spain) I have now taken the plunge and ordered the set from amazon.de while it IS in fact stated as being available. Anybody else did the same from other sites (such as co.uk) and what shipping time frames did they indicate to you?

[gmonahan]

I'm up to disc 4 on the set. The sound seems pretty good to me, but I'll bow on that score to the audiophiles on the list. I was fascinated by the book that came with it--a fairly good, if not overly critical, history of the label by (who else?) Jordi Pujol, who appears to have quite an affinity for Harry Lim. Lots of photos, some in color. For "notes" on the tracks themselves, he has used contemporary reviews of the original records from Metronome and Down Beat magazines. No doubt, this choice was dictated by the fact that he's cheap, but it's fascinating to read just how incredibly critical some of these reviews were. Packaging is similar to the Felsted box from a few years back. I'm glad I got it--lots of stuff I didn't have, and I have most of the "essential keynote" series on cd.

gregmo

[Big Beat Steve]

Well, this does sound promising, Greg - thanks very much!

Will hold my comments on your assessment of the booklet until I have received my copy but from what you say this booklet doesn't seem to be too bad. And after all, quality or thoroughness of the booklets can vary immensely with reissuers who don't fall into the "P.D. label" category as well, as we have recently seen in the case of Uptown (cf. Jacquet/Parker Toronoto CD), for example.

[Big Beat Steve]

O.K., my box set arrived yesterday and I spun through 2 or 3 of the discs. The sound is quite good to me, though I have a lot of the more familiar Keynotes on vinyl reissues on Dutch, UK, US and Japanese Mercury, some of which I've owned since the late 70s and they DID get some play here (so no matter how shiny the vinyl still looks, there must be some wear on them by now so they are not 100% ideal for comparison). I only have the Roy Eldridge/Trumpets volume from the Jap. Essential Keynote CD series and have not compared those yet (and am not likely to do so very soon). So I'll bow to the audiophiles for nitpickety fidelity comparison too.

As for the book, I am rather impressed too. The story of Keynote is presented quite well (I was unaware of how John Hammond got into the picture, for example), and IMO Harry Lim does deserve the focus placed on him (if only to offset that he has been ignored by Eddie Condon - cf. the pictures from that 1939 LIFE jam session party featured in the book; if you compare them to the pictures from that session in Eddie Condon's "Scrapbook" you will find he consistently omits Harry Lim in the captions when listing those seen in the pics.)

As for the comments on the music, no complaints from my side about the period record reviews. Sure, some of it is a bit "blurb"-ish, but how many academic hindsight-laden assessments of the music do you need, considering that this has done before in other reissues? And if you deduct the bio info on the participating musicians from those latter-day music evaluations (info that any seasoned collector can and will look up elsewhere) the discussion of the actual music slims down considerably.

OTOH I find most of those period reviews really fascinating as they shed light on the music the way it was perceived at the time and how it responded to the tastes of those days (assuming the critics weren't at total odds with the buyers' tastes all the time). Much better IMO in providing a path to enjoying the music the way it was enjoyed (and not dissected) by the jazz-loving public back then, even if you don't agree with the review ratings. Not the worst option of appreciating the music even today IMO (if you need background info at all in addition to the music as such).

Just my 2c.

BTW, one major question:

This box inlcudes a 4-track session by a Horace Henderson-led band that was recorded by Keynote but for unknown reasons was sold to the JAMBOREE label and released there (but never on Keynote). The book says this session is reissued here for the first time (thanks to a set of 78s provided by Eddie Bert who had participated in the session and had kept a set of the records). Is that so? Is this session NOT included in the 21-LP Japanese box either? This would be amazing ... Or do they mean "reissued on CD for the first time"?

Edited January 14, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[romualdo]

The Horace Henderson session is listed in the LP box booklet but was not released in the set

I've attached the session (from the Lord Discography) - looks like it was only released on Jamboree 78's, so first time on CD as far as I can tell

[Big Beat Steve]

Thanks, Romualdo. So this sesssion in its entirety is reissued for the first time here, it seems ...

I am fairly sure I have the Swingtime LP listed by Lord. IIRC it is credited to Buck Clayton and includes a sampling of rarities and oddities usually overlooked in other reissues. But this still seems to leave two titles all new to the reissue world.

[David Ayers]

There seem to be 243 tracks in this set. Don't ask me to work it out.

[J.A.W.]

There seem to be 243 tracks in this set. Don't ask me to work it out.

Pity, I was just going to...

[king ubu]

perusing romualdo's post above:

334 titles in the LP box

230 titles released in the CD series (including a few that were not on the LP box)

104 missing from the CD series (only 6 or 7 of those 104 are alternate takes)

243 in the new CD box

91 titles more in the LP box ... but since the new box adds a few things not in the LP box, it's probably some more (100?)

assumption: those 100 are all alternate takes

now what? the old CD series held plenty of alternate takes ...

97 master takes not on that CD series

243 titles in the new CD box

146 masters shared between the new CD box and the old CD series

84 takes from the CD series missing in the new box - all alternate takes?

So, what's with the assumed ~100 and then the assumed ~84 alternate takes - what causes the gap?

Hmmm ... and now where's this leading to, the road to nowhere? What did I forget?

The new box is out of stock again everywhere by now, btw.

Edited January 14, 2014 by king ubu

[J.A.W.]

Now I'm dizzy...

[king ubu]

have some Salt Peanuts

[J.A.W.]

have some Salt Peanuts

What took you so long?

Edited January 14, 2014 by J.A.W.

[mikeweil]

I have a copy of the discography of the Japanese LP box somewhere in the basement, but do not expect me to dig it out before spring or early summer.

[etherbored]

i don't suppose there's anything remotely approaching the replication of original artwork is there? well, other than maybe a few low-res copy and pastes included in the accompanying booklet. fresh sound usually goes to lengths to extrapolate any real visual connection to the original when doing their thing.

Edited January 14, 2014 by etherbored

[gmonahan]

Lots of pics of original keynote 78 labels, some in color, as well as some small thumbnail-size pics in color of original 78 album art and, on one page, thumbnails of 6 emarcy album covers taken from the Keynote material. It also comes with an insert with thumbnail (B&W) photos of every musician who played on the sessions. They also appear in the booklet along with a fair number of session photos. It's a cd-sized booklet, so it's all small.

While I found the contemporary reviews of discs interesting as historical documents, I would have preferred a Mosaic-style analysis by a good liners-writer, but somehow, I don't quite expect to get that from Fresh Sound!

gregmo

[J.A.W.]

O.K., my box set arrived yesterday and I spun through 2 or 3 of the discs. The sound is quite good to me, though I have a lot of the more familiar Keynotes on vinyl reissues on Dutch, UK, US and Japanese Mercury, some of which I've owned since the late 70s and they DID get some play here (so no matter how shiny the vinyl still looks, there must be some wear on them by now so they are not 100% ideal for comparison). I only have the Roy Eldridge/Trumpets volume from the Jap. Essential Keynote CD series and have not compared those yet (and am not likely to do so very soon). So I'll bow to the audiophiles for nitpickety fidelity comparison too.

This box inlcudes a 4-track session by a Horace Henderson-led band that was recorded by Keynote but for unknown reasons was sold to the JAMBOREE label and released there (but never on Keynote). The book says this session is reissued here for the first time (thanks to a set of 78s provided by Eddie Bert who had participated in the session and had kept a set of the records). Is that so? Is this session NOT included in the 21-LP Japanese box either? This would be amazing ... Or do they mean "reissued on CD for the first time"?

I'm up to disc 4 on the set. The sound seems pretty good to me, but I'll bow on that score to the audiophiles on the list.gregmo

Any info on the sources that were used, other than the Horace Henderson session Steve mentioned?

[romualdo]

I've just sat down for the last couple of hours & compared the LP set booklet with a download of the track details from the Fresh Sound site

Here's the deal (final I hope)

There are 334 titles in the LP box & 243 in the CD set (minus the 4 Horace Hendersons make 239)

I then worked backwards & counted the alternates in the LP set = 95 & presto 334 minus 95 gives 239

If you have the complete "Essential" Series (Vol. 1-10 or 14CDs with a total of 230 titles - remember, 10 of these were alternates from the Benny Carter disc not in the LP set) plus the new Fresh Sound box you will only be missing out on 7 alternates

1. Bennny Morton's Trombone Choir - Where Or When

2. Bennny Morton's Trombone Choir - Liza

3. Pete Brown's All Star Quintet with Kenny Kersey - That's My Weakness Now

4. Pete Brown's All Star Quintet with Kenny Kersey - It's the Talk Of The Town

5. Willie Smith Orch - Moten Swing

6. Budd Freeman Orch - Town Hall Blues

7. Gene Sedric Orch - I Got Rhythm

There you have it!

I'm wondering which version of Hawkin's "Cattin' at Keynote" the new set is using - the LP set used an alternate take & not the 78 version (bet you they have used the wrong version as in the original LP box)

[Big Beat Steve]

I'm wondering which version of Hawkins' "Cattin' at Keynote" the new set is using - the LP set used an alternate take & not the 78 version (bet you they have used the wrong version as in the original LP box)

Which might give a clue as to the source material they used.

I'll try and compare this track with the Mercury LP reissue I have of that session.

And thanks for your comparison, BTW!

[romualdo]

The LP box set is not quite complete.

From memory (for what it's worth), there was an alternate take from one of the Coleman Hawkins dates that was left off. I think it was issued earlier on a Queen Disc LP. I don't remember off hand if the missing alternate was included on the 4-CD Hawkins issue. If I have time later I'll try to figure that out.

Sorry Steve, I meant reissued on compact disc. Correct me if I'm wrong but I am pretty sure that the LP set has it all.

The Coleman Hawkins title was an alternate of "Cattin' At Keynote" (Feb 17, 1944) - was on Meritt LP 25 & is not on the Hawkins 4CD set

The omitted Hawkins track was in fact the master take which had been issued on 78. The box (and the subsequent CD set) only contained the alternate, and Dan Morgenstern in his otherwise excellent notes denies the existence of a second take as listed in discographies.

Thanks for the info. I've enjoyed the 4-CD Complete Coleman Hawkins Keynote box for years, and didn't know about this missing take. This is when having a 78 rig helps - I just went on Ebay and found the Keynote 78 of "Cattin' at Keynote" for a good Buy It Now price. The seller also had a couple of Don Byas 78s I had been looking for.

My 78 of "Cattin' at Keynote" finally arrived today - definitely a different take from the "Complete" Hawkins box. On the 78 master, Bean begins his solo with the same lick as on the CD take, but he finishes the phrase differently - and more creatively. The whole solo is more thoughtful and interesting than on the CD take, although it builds up a pretty good head of steam by the third chorus. It makes the more familiar CD take sound kind of forced.

Just my opinion, of course, but I prefer the 78 take. I guess Hawkins and Harry Lim did, too, since that's the one they issued.

Jeff has a copy of the original 78 - see above

[king ubu]

Very cool, many thanks Romualdo!

Definitely need to get this box!

[Brad]

This is a phenomenal review by Steve Wallace of the Fresh Sounds set that he posted in his blog a few years ago, courtesy of Ted O'Reilly.

Keynote Address

[medjuck]

 Between the Mosaic Pres/Basie set which includes the Keynotes and the 4 cd Hawkins Keynote set I have about 35 of the alternates.  (There's a lot on the Hawkins set.) 

Edited May 2, 2019 by medjuck

[ejp626]

Just found the 4 CD Coleman Hawkins on Keynote from an eBay seller for a reasonable price.  Fingers crossed it is in good or at least reasonable condition.  I did see there is a used copy on Discogs, though the seller is in France, so shipping may be a bit steep for anyone in North America.

[medjuck]

I asked permission to repost this from the original poster. It's a pretty amazing discovery about Keynote (Unfortunately I think you have to copy the whole address to get to it.) 

 

https://www.facebook.com/SwingMan1937?__tn__=%2CdlC-R-R&eid=ARDztYX_YlJGyz4tdhdPFNDR-Joz1r8Pw2RYnSbHfY34dhNuWHDZEX6vFQAhcy4DAF3ND1spAL_JJ6fD&hc_ref=ARSkOZbYkXMinGr0BPo3wlpQR-0BnRf1T5mSckztoAR-I49pEL6Z1DELHS0L0_J1FY0

 

Here's a bit of it:  

Edited May 2, 2019 by medjuck