"Serious" Fusion in 80's-90's / Drummer Wars

[7/4]

I really want to hear the new live Holdsworth cd with Jimmy Johnson on bass and Chad Wackerman on drums.

Which one?

Allan Holdsworth-"All Night Wrong" 2002

Tracks:

1. Lanyard Loop

2. The Things You See

3. Alphrazallan

4. Funnels

5. Zone

6. Water On The Brain Pt. 2

7. Above & Below

8. Gas Lamp Blues

Personnel:

Allan Holdsworth: Guitar

Jimmy Johnson: Bass

Chad Wackerman: Drums

Or this one:

Tracks:

1. Zone 1

2. Proto-Cosmos

3. White Line

4. Atavachron

5. Zone 2

6. Pud Wud

7. House Of Mirrors

8. Non-Brewed Condiment

9. Zone 3

All tracks recorded live in Tokyo, Japan May 4-6, 1990.

Personnel:

Allan Holdsworth: Guitar, Baritone Guitar

Steve Hunt: Keyboards

Gary Husband: Drums

Jimmy Johnson: Bass

I've had All Night Wrong for a while I like it a lot. Then! I just picked up this afternoon, I'm about most of the way through and I like what I hear. I heard this band many times back in the late '80's/very early '90s. I'ts a shame it only clocks in at 55:40.

This is strange. I usually have a running conversation with a CD store owner/friend/ex-customer about Holdsworth, but last Tues. I was working with a computer tech and it turns out he's a fan. Plays bass, loves to jam '80 vintage fusion with friends.

Now this. Must be the stars....

[mikeweil]

I saw Holdsworth on TV with Husband and found it boring, 'cause Husband is an accomplished but flashy and somehow superficial player, but Wackerman is a class all of his own. The most intelligent fusion drummer I have ever heard. He has a jazzy sensibility and dynamics and at the same time that jazzy unpredictability. Where the others play amazing technical tricks, his are musical as well. He composed most of the tracks on his first CMP CD, and the way he navigates through them is great. Holdsworth plays much more interesting phrases on this one than on his own albums - he needs a drummer a notch superior to himself or he will fall back into technical flashes. A friend of mine to whom I played this, said: If it has to be fusion, then like this, please!

I'll check out thatz new live trio CD.

[Jazzdog]

Which one?

Allan Holdsworth-"All Night Wrong" 2002

Tracks:

1. Lanyard Loop

2. The Things You See

3. Alphrazallan

4. Funnels

5. Zone

6. Water On The Brain Pt. 2

7. Above & Below

8. Gas Lamp Blues

Personnel:

Allan Holdsworth: Guitar

Jimmy Johnson: Bass

Chad Wackerman: Drums

This one!

The second one, just judging from that cover photo, looks kind of cheesy.

[7/4]

Don't judge a CD by it's cover, I thought it was pretty good.

[neveronfriday]

Funny that this thread pops up now.

Shortly before I left home for a bit over a week ago, I reorganized my CD collection and threw all the fusion and easy listening stuff into the pop section.

Scary how much of that stuff I actually have. Two meters, I think. Most of it leaves me absolutely cold today, although there are some excellent sessions in there, somewhere (Return to Forever live, f.ex.).

The same goes for all that drumming stuff. Terry Bozzio, that Wacko guy, etc. ... ever since I saw Jeff Hamilton, who blew the whole lot out of the water with the swing of one single brush, I filed them next to Boston, Whitesnake (that's the band whose lead singer blow-dried himself into oblivion some years back), etc.

Cheers!

P.S.: Before I moved all of the junk out, I thought I had more, err, jazz CDs.

I don't.

I think I drink and smoke too much.

[Guy Berger]

Al Dimeola leaves me cold. His playing is just empty, although I think he is a very good acoustic player. His Metheny esque stuff in the 80's was an ego trip, after Pat came out with "First Circle", Al decided to do the Synclavier thing, and go for a similar sort of sound. Even the pseudo Roland GR300 trumpet sound on that tune "Traces of a Tear", the lone tune I really heard from "Soaring Through a Dream" really sucked. Al is such an arrogant ass too, saw this webcast interview with him where someone sent in a question about making a live album and he just replied "no. because historically, live albums don't sell" or something to that effect.

I'm not a big Al DiMeola fan -- I think that RtF really started going downhill when he joined -- but I don't mind listening to the one album I have by him (Elegant Gypsy). Nothing too substantial, but fun to hear once in a while. Especially "Racing the Devil on a Spanish Highway" or whatever it is called.

Another album that's probably not even "serious fusion", but in the same "fun to hear once in a while" category is Liquid Tension Experiment with bassist/stickman Tony Levin and a bunch of guys from the prog-metal band Dream Theater. I thought it was ridiculous even when I listened to a lot of fusion, but at this point that doesn't really bother me.

And for some surprisingly good fusion, there's ProjeKct Two's Space Groove with Robert Fripp, Trey Gunn and Adrian Belew (on drums). Anybody else heard this one? Not a shred-fest by any means, just long meandering spacy jams.

Guy

[take5]

Guy, I'm a huge Crimson nut, so am very well acquainted with all the ProjecKt stuff.

Space Groove is actually, IMO, the weakest of the ProjecKt recordings, because it all just came from the three of them screwing around with a new pair of electronic drums. Some of the material on the first CD is pretty nice, but it gets totally lost in the 2nd.

My favorite ProjecKt material is found in two of the King Crimson Collector's Club releases, especially ProjecKt 4 live in San Francisco. That is both an awesome performance in itself and most clearly demonstrates where Crimson itself was going.

Liquid Tension is a lot of fun, and I saw their first of four performances live.

I don't like most fusion anymore, especially 80s/90s stuff. I guess I thought some of it was cool in college, but it all sounds so sterile.

Al DiMeola can be fun to listen to. I have two compilations, don't know if I'll keep them. Saw him live, it was cool at the time, but I don't think I'd bother nowadays.

[Guy Berger]

Guy, I'm a huge Crimson nut, so am very well acquainted with all the ProjecKt stuff.

Space Groove is actually, IMO, the weakest of the ProjecKt recordings, because it all just came from the three of them screwing around with a new pair of electronic drums. Some of the material on the first CD is pretty nice, but it gets totally lost in the 2nd.

I realize I'm in a minority on this opinion. Yeah, the 2nd CD rambles like crazy, but I enjoy it nonetheless.

My favorite ProjecKt material is found in two of the King Crimson Collector's Club releases, especially ProjecKt 4 live in San Francisco.  That is both an awesome performance in itself and most clearly demonstrates where Crimson itself was going.

Yeah... I saw P4 in SF in October of 1998 (?). Incredible show, at least the second half of it. When I got the Collector's Club CD, it didn't sound nearly as good.

I have the ProjeKcts box set and the only one of the albums that I really enjoyed was the one with Bruford (ProjeKct One). P3 gave me a headache.

Liquid Tension is a lot of fun, and I saw their first of four performances live.

Yeah, saw these guys in LA in early 1999 (?). Really frickin' loud, I wish I'd brought earplugs!

Guy

[Alon Marcus]

I happen to like fusion (as a basic blend of jazz/rock) and if you don't mind will make this thread a home for some fusion recommendations/discussions.

One of my favorite albums is Synergy by Dave Weckl. This album is full of irresistible rhythmic drive and nice improvisations by Jay Oliver (who also plays some hammond) and Buzz Feiten on guitar. These musicians are practically unknown to me. The album is rockish and electrical but it sounds natural and I think the players had a good chance to stretch out a bit.

Edited February 12, 2005 by Alon Marcus

[Sundog]

I happen to like fusion (as a basic blend of jazz/rock) and if you don't mind will make this thread a home for some fusion recommendations/discussions.

One of my favorite albums is Synergy by Dave Weckl. This album is full of irresistible rhythmic drive and nice improvisations by Jay Oliver (who also plays some hammond) and Buzz Feiten on guitar. These musicians are practically unknown to me. The album is rockish and electrical but it sounds natural and I think the players had a good chance to stretch out a bit.

Here's a little more info. on Buzz

[Guest akanalog]

do carla bley's 80's works count as fusion? guess not really.

how about the everyman band? that was lou reed's rhythm section from some album and dave torn. skronky stuff, from what i heard.

[Alon Marcus]

Carla Bley - what a great example!

Sometimes she really could blend jazz with rock and pop in an intelligent way.

But she's also much more than this, one of my favorite writers/bandleaders.

[Alon Marcus]

It's npt from the 80's or 90's but still two very good modern fusion albums which I enjoy very much.

Both are by Christian McBride

Sci-Fi

Vertical Vision

What do you think about these?

[Guy Berger]

Al Dimeola leaves me cold. His playing is just empty, although I think he is a very good acoustic player. His Metheny esque stuff in the 80's was an ego trip, after Pat came out with "First Circle", Al decided to do the Synclavier thing, and go for a similar sort of sound. Even the pseudo Roland GR300 trumpet sound on that tune "Traces of a Tear", the lone tune I really heard from "Soaring Through a Dream" really sucked. Al is such an arrogant ass too, saw this webcast interview with him where someone sent in a question about making a live album and he just replied "no. because historically, live albums don't sell" or something to that effect.

I'm not a big Al DiMeola fan -- I think that RtF really started going downhill when he joined -- but I don't mind listening to the one album I have by him (Elegant Gypsy). Nothing too substantial, but fun to hear once in a while. Especially "Racing the Devil on a Spanish Highway" or whatever it is called.

I listened to Elegant Gypsy for the first time in I don't know how many years - very enjoyable. But I've also been digging 90125 recently so what do I know.

Guy