John Coltrane - Live at Birdland

[king ubu]

I'm just reading in the "Coltrane Reference" (p. 689) that IMPD 198 (CD) contained a wrong master tape for "Afro Blue", running 8:05 instead of 10:40 (Tyner's solo deleted).

Now I pop in my 1996 GRP CD (one of the old Impulse Digipack CDs, IMP 11982, with "Vilia" from 1963--03-06 as bonus track), and that one also has that "Afro Blue" at 8:07!!! (I guess that's what the "Coltrane Reference" refers to as as IMPD 198... as in 11982)

I've had this disc for so many years and never noticed this goof!

Is the "Impulse Originals" fixed? Where the hell can I get an ok version of this?

I'm really pissed right now, this is such a fabulous album and I've known it since I was in highschool and into jazz newly... and I've never, not ONCE, heard the actual master take of "Afro Blue" - friggin' unbelievable!

Can anyone confirm that the "Impulse Originals" has the correct version?

And does anyone want to give me 100$ for the effin' rarity I seem to have bought?

(The Coltrane Reference says "Although most copies were recovered and destroyed, a few (no one know exactly how many) made it out in the marketplace, especially overseas [yeah, them merikins like to eff us yurpeens, we know that!] (where release dates are usually earlier to prevent piracy). But the fiasco does not seem to have ended there: There are now releases available with the timing on the liner notes 'corrected' to show 8:05 [mine gives '8:07'], rather than the correct 10:40. In some cases, the CD has the full "Afro Blue," but in others the incomplete master has been used."

I just can't effin' believe this right now! Was anyone here aware of this???

[Chuck Nessa]

Don't know what to say - my digipack of this plays the longer version. Is yours a Euro pressing?

[king ubu]

Don't know what to say - my digipack of this plays the longer version. Is yours a Euro pressing?

Yes, "Made in the EC" - gee, I am so ANGRY about this!

Edit: must have bought this soon after it came out (somewhen in 1996).

Edited June 15, 2010 by king ubu

[J.A.W.]

Just checked my second Japanese CD issue from 1991 (MVCI-23013) and it has the unedited 10+ minutes version.

[Shawn]

I have the Impulse digi-pak version from '96, I just put it into iTunes and it says the time of that track is 10:53

[king ubu]

Gee - can I get a free replacement after all these years?!

At this very moment, I feel like I was screwed by GRP/MCA/Verve/Universal for 14 years with no intermission!

[king ubu]

btw, the amazon-listing for the "Originals" reissue gives no timings - thank you:

http://www.amazon.com/Live-at-Birdland-John-Coltrane/dp/B0018RWD68/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276644073&sr=1-2

the MP3/download edition that can be bought is the "master edition" (1996, which I have the faulty one of - wrong cover on amazon.com, right one on amazon.de):

http://www.amazon.com/Live-at-Birdland-John-Coltrane/dp/B000003N8O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276644073&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.de/Live-At-Birdland/dp/B001SQPVMW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1276644170&sr=8-2-spell

[porcy62]

Obviously I could buy an original vinyl pressing of it, with a sounding 10:40 Afro Blue, like my copy...

[brownie]

I was not aware of this...

I still have the Vega French pressing (Impulse IMP 50) of the album. Purchased when it came out in the early '60s.

The 'Microsillon incassable Longue Durée' vinyl has the 10:40 original version of 'Afro-Blue'.

[king ubu]

So I am the only one with a goofy CD here, it seems!?

As I said, I take offers... list price for this one on amazon.de (it's still in print) is almost 20€ (these "Master Sessions" went from mid- to high-prize somewhen in the late 90s, from one day to another). Crazy!

Now in all seriousness: what would you folks do? Just buy another one? Or buy the "Originals"? Or try and get a replacement (we're talking 14 years...) in the store where I got it, or by writing to Universal Switzerland (risking in both cases that IF at all I'll get something, I end up with the "Originals" disc, which misses "Vilia", the nice bonus track, which I also have in the 8CD "Classic Quartet" set, though...) - what would you do?

[tjluke68]

I was working for a music marketing company back in the mid-to-late 90s when the digipak was released. We were doing some promo work for IMPULSE at the time and remember my supervisor having to gather up all of the boxes and throw them in the garbage. Not sure if it's collectible, but he gave some of us two copies of the sealed CD and tossed the rest in the garbage container outside.

Me, thinking Coltrane, collectibility and dollar $igns was thinking about doing some dumpster diving later that day but when my supervisor came back from the trash bin he mentioned that "luckily the garbage truck was there so we just threw 'em in and watched 'em get crushed." JEEZ!!!

But I doubt it's something collectible but who knows...

[MartyJazz]

So I am the only one with a goofy CD here, it seems!?

As I said, I take offers... list price for this one on amazon.de (it's still in print) is almost 20€ (these "Master Sessions" went from mid- to high-prize somewhen in the late 90s, from one day to another). Crazy!

Now in all seriousness: what would you folks do? Just buy another one? Or buy the "Originals"? Or try and get a replacement (we're talking 14 years...) in the store where I got it, or by writing to Universal Switzerland (risking in both cases that IF at all I'll get something, I end up with the "Originals" disc, which misses "Vilia", the nice bonus track, which I also have in the 8CD "Classic Quartet" set, though...) - what would you do?

I discovered your problem on my Impulse IMPD copy years ago. Don't recall what I did with that CD, but I discovered soon thereafter that the original CD release, i.e., the MCA/Impulse MCAD-33109 issue, has the correct 10:50 version. Sonically, it may be inferior to the later digipack corrected release, but I do hold onto this one, particularly as I also have an LP copy of long standing.

Edited June 16, 2010 by MartyJazz

[romualdo]

Just checked my Birdland CD (11105-1198-2-5) & it has the shorter version (8:07). It's a Euro pressing & it seems I obtained it here in Australia in 1996.

I've also been thinking of upgrading to the recent Coltrane Impulse box sets - is the sound quality that much better than the 90's digipak releases? (what about the double impulse sets from the early 2000's eg love supreme, ballads - were they sonically improved on the 90's issues)

[king ubu]

Glad not to be all alone, then!

So I am the only one with a goofy CD here, it seems!?

As I said, I take offers... list price for this one on amazon.de (it's still in print) is almost 20€ (these "Master Sessions" went from mid- to high-prize somewhen in the late 90s, from one day to another). Crazy!

Now in all seriousness: what would you folks do? Just buy another one? Or buy the "Originals"? Or try and get a replacement (we're talking 14 years...) in the store where I got it, or by writing to Universal Switzerland (risking in both cases that IF at all I'll get something, I end up with the "Originals" disc, which misses "Vilia", the nice bonus track, which I also have in the 8CD "Classic Quartet" set, though...) - what would you do?

I discovered your problem on my Impulse IMPD copy years ago. Don't recall what I did with that CD, but I discovered soon thereafter that the original CD release, i.e., the MCA/Impulse MCAD-33109 issue, has the correct 10:50 version. Sonically, it may be inferior to the later digipack corrected release, but I do hold onto this one, particularly as I also have an LP copy of long standing.

Hm, I never had any older version...

Just checked my Birdland CD (11105-1198-2-5) & it has the shorter version (8:07). It's a Euro pressing & it seems I obtained it here in Australia in 1996.

I've also been thinking of upgrading to the recent Coltrane Impulse box sets - is the sound quality that much better than the 90's digipak releases? (what about the double impulse sets from the early 2000's eg love supreme, ballads - were they sonically improved on the 90's issues)

I didn't compare and I don't care much for upgrades. The 2CD sets are great though. "Ballads" (for most I guess the most dispensable of these) has the whole "Greensleeves"/"Easy to Remember" session (4-7 takes of each) on disc 2, "Coltrane" has a whole bunch of goodies (but a goof in that it has "The Inchworm" from the Ellington date instead of the one from the Coltrane quartet date - there must be a thread about that somewhere here), and "A Love Supreme" is most essential for the Antibe 1965 live performance of the whole suite (its first legit release), as well as some material from a different version with Archie Shepp added.

To me, the Coltrane nut, all of this is essential!

[Shawn]

Personally, I'd highly recommend getting the 2-CD sets of Coltrane & A Love Supreme, simply because of the wealth and quality of the bonus material. Ballads also has many alternate takes, but I'm not as crazy about that session so I didn't pick up that version.

[Guy Berger]

The live performance of A Love Supreme is among the most essential live Coltrane out there... I'd even put it ahead of the Vanguard box.

[John L]

I bought a Digipack in the 90s, and it has the shorter version of Afro Blue on it.

[king ubu]

One more then... I have a Universal/Impulse Originals disc on its way to me now.

Will have it twice then, and the studio bits three-times (also on the "Classic Quartet" box).

[CJ Shearn]

A local store has the '87 reissue of "Live at Birdland" I had them play it on the speakers, sounded ok but I generally avoid those early MCA CD's. Just have a few of what were then "new releases" (Brecker, DeJohnette, Yellowjackets) the sound is generally not that great.