Blue Note Deletion email from True Blue/Mosaic

[J.A.W.]

Just read Dan's reply and yes, I agree, he does have a point. I will now retire to contemplate what means for me...

[Big Beat Steve]

I believe Dan has some very valid points here.

Dan not only has some valid points but he nailed it and hit the spot IMHO.

The reason appears quite evident to me: There are a LOT of people out there who, the way, this term is commonly understood, can really be called collectors but are EONS away from anything resembling completeness, maybe because of lack of funds, maybe because they have only recently gotten started. And yet they listen to their music intensely, add more music regularly and constantly, are probably interested in the lives of the artists and the history of the music (ESSENTIAL if you want to find out more about what other related stuff there is you'd want to collect). Isn't that typical of ANY collector?

IMO completists as described in JAW's post (i.e. going beyond sheer completeness of the recorded works, for example, into mastering/version/pressing/release trivia etc.) not only are "ultra-completists" but are really getting near the status of GEEKS or FETISHISTS or whatever. :D

Edited June 25, 2010 by Big Beat Steve

[David Ayers]

There is more to jazz connoisseurship than collecting, and much in it that falls well short of an interest in the arts. In some ways it is more like following sports. I was always put off from early jazz because the people who discussed it on Radio 3 obsessed about personnel and were absolutely inarticulate on any other point. I found them insanely ignorant and concluded (and still would conclude, probably) that music of that kind was for the aesthetically clueless. I'd still say, as one sort of measure, that anyone who doesn't have the Berg violin concerto (say) in her or his head is falling short of any serious interest in music AS SUCH. Jazz connoisseurship is more like following sport. If you support a team you support all the bad performances, and in fact your support doesn't waver even if all the performances are bad. Love of Blue Note which is common to most of us on this board exemplifies this, to my mind. Only a minority of Blue Notes coould remotely be thought of as of genuine historical-aesthetic importance (I'd say none, probably), even allowing for all the exaggerated and bracketted claims of significance that revolve around jazz history (Lee Morgan vs Pierre Boulez, anyone?). Incidentally it would be possible to construct similar histories for many 'genres' of popular music but any 'collector' mostly ignores those histories. Why? Because at root s/he is convinced the other histories are not important, and that kind of means that one's own particular enthusiasm is just that - though, of course, enthusiasm is the real motor that makes these things a pleasure. But to think clearly about what that pleasure is or has been - that's complicated

[Dan Gould]

Can't say that I agree with David - I mean, I'm the former Gene Harris Fanatic and even I didn't hold onto his crappy mid-70s BNs. And there are plenty here who have maybe slightly less intense enjoyment from other artists who have kept only the best of their recordings. And being inarticulate about music - how common is that when you consider how many of us aren't musicians and don't write about music for a living?

[Big Beat Steve]

And being inarticulate about music - how common is that when you consider how many of us aren't musicians and don't write about music for a living?

And yet we shouldn't consider ourselves totally "inarticulate" about music - that is, unless you assume "articulate" to equal ethereal ramblings about perceived spiritual qualities in musical details that no mere mortals would ever be able to figure out for themselves. I mean, one could probably ramble on and on and on about how this artist achieved the highest levels of sophistication by blowing that triply flattened 97th with that very special kind of "attacca" that only this or that older master had ever attained before him but would this leave even the ambitious and truly interested listener who is NOT a musician (or a musicologist) any wiser and add to his enjoyment of the music as such?

[Victor Christensen]

I have a lot, but have only been a completist with Sonny Clark and I made it, took me 6 years to do it. I am 74 now and have been hooked on jazz since

I was 15. can't be without it, play probably 6-7 hours each day.

Vic

[JSngry]

(Lee Morgan vs Pierre Boulez, anyone?).

For the vibrational spectrum which I inhabit, and that of what it is that nurtures and grows positivity therein, I'm taking Lee, no question.

Of course, in different worlds with different vibrational spectrums and manifestations of needs, the answer would be otherwise, including, in some, "neither, please".

I don't know that it's you are what you eat as much a it is you eat what you are?

[tranemonk]

You're doing what I hope to be doing in 30 years... Keep it up!!!!!

I have a lot, but have only been a completist with Sonny Clark and I made it, took me 6 years to do it. I am 74 now and have been hooked on jazz since

I was 15. can't be without it, play probably 6-7 hours each day.

Vic

[Shawn]

I'm more interested in pruning down my collection to "essentials", than trying to own EVERYTHING by a particular artist. Life is just too short for that I realize.

It's like with box sets. At some point I started collecting box sets. Then quite a few years later I realized...I hate box sets, they're inconvenient, I get tired just thinking about which session is on which disc, etc. So I got rid of a bunch of box sets, then later grabbed single sessions out of those boxes that I REALLY wanted. That's honestly good enough for me. I like all kinds of music and I'm still discovering new stuff I like all the time, so I'm not going to zero in my radar on one style. My CD budget is limited, so I have to spread it around.

[David Ayers]

Can't say that I agree with David - I mean, I'm the former Gene Harris Fanatic and even I didn't hold onto his crappy mid-70s BNs. And there are plenty here who have maybe slightly less intense enjoyment from other artists who have kept only the best of their recordings. And being inarticulate about music - how common is that when you consider how many of us aren't musicians and don't write about music for a living?

Hey those mid-70s releases are good!

Well maybe not that good. Incidentally I was wondering what Vibrations is like; how worthwhile might the current TOCJ reissue be?

[A Lark Ascending]

I'd still say, as one sort of measure, that anyone who doesn't have the Berg violin concerto (say) in her or his head is falling short of any serious interest in music AS SUCH.

Why?

I suspect the majority of people on this board (outside those with a parallel interest in classical music) have never heard the Berg violin concerto. Does that mean they are 'falling short of any serious interest in music AS SUCH'?

[Dan Gould]

Vibrations is like Live at the Lighthouse in that it also has Gene overdubbed on organ (on just a few tracks). I'd get Live at the Lighthouse first as the band really cooked on those dates. If you like Live at the Lighthouse then you'll probably like Vibrations too but I'd probably recommend all of the earlier trio recordings ahead of it.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Dan Gould

[David Ayers]

I'd still say, as one sort of measure, that anyone who doesn't have the Berg violin concerto (say) in her or his head is falling short of any serious interest in music AS SUCH.

Why?

I suspect the majority of people on this board (outside those with a parallel interest in classical music) have never heard the Berg violin concerto. Does that mean they are 'falling short of any serious interest in music AS SUCH'?

Anyone who knows music history knows why, and I should think that anyone who doesn't suspects that they need to find out. Of course, not knowing stuff is entirely cool too.

Vibrations is like Live at the Lighthouse in that it also has Gene overdubbed on organ (on just a few tracks). I'd get Live at the Lighthouse first as the band really cooked on those dates. If you like Live at the Lighthouse then you'll probably like Vibrations too but I'd probably recommend all of the earlier trio recordings ahead of it.

OK thanks. I'm nearly there on the preceding trios - of course I suppose I could stop but I'm lured by the artificial scarcity.

[JSngry]

Whose history?

[A Lark Ascending]

I wonder if Muddy Waters had the Berg violin concerto in his head.

[David Ayers]

Oops sorry. Let's get back into the comfort zone by posting a list of CDs. Somebody?

[JSngry]

Yeah man, you know you're in trouble when you got both Bev and me bearing down on you on the same side of an issue, for the same reaons.

[porcy62]

I wonder if Muddy Waters had the Berg violin concerto in his head.

I am pretty sure Berg had his mojo working when wrote down the concerto.

Edited June 26, 2010 by porcy62

[David Ayers]

Yeah man, you know you're in trouble when you got both Bev and me bearing down on you on the same side of an issue, for the same reaons.

I think you two should settle it between you in a kind of semi-final and then the winner meets me in Vegas.

[A Lark Ascending]

I wonder if Muddy Waters had the Berg violin concerto in his head.

I am pretty sure Berg had his mojo working when wrote down the concerto.

I think you'll find that the tune for 'She's Nineteen Years Old' is an inversion of the opening bars of the Berg concerto. Though I suspect Muddy's memory of his angel was somewhat different to Berg's.

Yeah man, you know you're in trouble when you got both Bev and me bearing down on you on the same side of an issue, for the same reaons.

Now how did that happen? Can't have been concentrating. One of those smiley face things.

[BFrank]

Just got a reminder email from True Blue about the deleted BNs. Includes a CLASSIC BN-like typo, too!

Kenny Dorham - Trompeta Toccata (RVG Remaster) $12.98

Tompeta Toccatta, made in September 1964 would be the final recorded collaboration by Dorham and Hoe Henderson. This one features soulful, but challenging originals and brilliant solo work from all. "Night Watch" is a bluesy, lyrical masterpiece

[Swinging Swede]

The very same sentence has two other spelling errors. They managed to get both words in the title wrong! "Tompeta" should be "Trompeta", and "Toccatta" should be "Toccata". The original CD spelt it "Trumpeta" on the spine, of course...

[king ubu]

Hoe Jenderson?

More goodies disappearing, by the likes of Brifford Clown, Bet, Chaker, Hobby Butcherson... also one by one Onrette Coleman.

[Tom 1960]

I've always been partial to "Booby" Hutcherson.

[Shawn]

Hoe Jenderson?

More goodies disappearing, by the likes of Brifford Clown, Bet, Chaker, Hobby Butcherson... also one by one Onrette Coleman.

Hawk Mumbley, Leanne Morgan, Teeny Brooks, Pete Lacucaracha, Billy Schnitzingruben...all the great ones are gone.