Artists you know well but have never really liked

[AllenLowe]

allright, I'll go out on a limb - much of the 1960s Blue Note sound - too many poorly-composed neo-modal and modal-gospel tunes that bored me in the 1960s and that still bore me.

[Peter Friedman]

Scott LaFaro and Eddie Gomez are two bass players I don't like all that much. They are both highly skilled, but their styles are not what I really find most appealing from bass players.

I have a very large number of recordings with both of them as sidemen. I also recall seeing Bill Evans with Gomez 3 or 4 times and kept thinking that I wish someone else was playing bass with him.

[blind-blake]

please don't come to my house with torches, but I've never had any patience with Zoot Sims.

What's your address? Nobody messes with Zoot!

[Cyril]

..... I have greatest difficulty with Reinhardt and Grappelli....

Love them so much...

I don't like: Anthony Braxton, Peter Brötzmann, Pat Metheny and Cecil Taylor.

[John L]

Scott LaFaro and Eddie Gomez are two bass players I don't like all that much. They are both highly skilled, but their styles are not what I really find most appealing from bass players.

I have a very large number of recordings with both of them as sidemen. I also recall seeing Bill Evans with Gomez 3 or 4 times and kept thinking that I wish someone else was playing bass with him.

I'm with you on that. As incredible as LaFaro and Gomez are, I would rather listen to other bass players, including with Bill Evans.

[White Lightning]

Freddie Hubbard. I've lots of his appearances on disc, and I want to like him...

I've never warmed up to Hubbard as well (his recordings with Tina Brooks is an exception).

I really tried but I still don't really like Joe Lovano.

[clifford_thornton]

I just keep buying / acquiring / listening / hearing as much as my pocketbook and time will allow, and hope that one day I'll have a fraction of an understanding about what some of these great artists (like/not like being beyond me sometimes) have been up to.

[Tom Cat]

I've assiduously hoovered up dozens of titles by or featuring Jackie McLean over the years. But in fact I have never really liked him or thought much of him. Usual objections - repeats himself a lot, gimmicky sharp playing, etc. So what was I thinking when I bought all those records and why do I still listen to them. [crosses stage slowly, appearing to ponder]

I probably have other artists in this category, if I put my mind to it. Am I alone?

until a couple of months ago i felt the same about Mclean, but i started to like his avant garde stuff with grachan moncur

when i started to hear jazz, cause i was a prog rock fan, i started with jazz fusion but i don't like the ones of metheny and pastorius ha

I consider Herbie Mann to be the most over rated jazz musician. I hate his flute "playing". He has no sound on the albums I've been forced to hear him. Like the one he did with Clifford Brown.

He may be a great organizer or band leader...I actually like his bass clarinet playing more than his flute. Ok, enough.

I don't listen to Scott Hamilton either. He can play, of course, and is a good tenor saxophonist, but I find him passionless and very "pre-thought-out". I can't think of a word for that :-) I could bore you with more.

you're right about herbie mann, and also his album covers suck

[BillF]

you're right about herbie mann, and also his album covers suck

Yes, indeed!

[jlhoots]

A 3rd vote "for" Pat Metheny.

[B. Goren.]

A 3rd vote "for" Pat Metheny.

One more vote for Pat Metheny. Brad Mehldau and Enrico Piranunzi are also in the same list.

[AllenLowe]

as for Jackie McLean - if you have problems, try listening to the live stuff from Europe (Scandanavia? Germany? can't remember) with things llike Das Dat - the absolute pinnacle of post-bop intensity and inventiveness. Amazing stuff.

[mikelz777]

The names that come to mind for me have already been mentioned. When I first got into jazz, I bought up a lot of Scott Hamilton because he was "safe" and very easy to listen to. (Plus his used discs were available pretty cheap.) When I read descriptions of him as a "journeyman" player I was somewhat resentful because I really enjoyed him and his undeniable talent and thought that the term was dismissive. As time passed and my jazz ear matured I found that I never listened to him any more. I'm not sure what it is but it seems to be a lack of any edge, passion and/or soul. When I listen to his stuff it's kind of like sonic wallpaper, it's just "there". As it turns out, the "journeyman" title was pretty apt. When I started going through them to sell the discs I had the hardest time choosing which few to hold onto because they all more or less sounded the same. I still think he's a great talent but he just doesn't move me any more.

Dave Brubeck is another. I bought up a bunch of his discs early on and then over time I discovered what I really liked about him was Paul Desmond. I ended up selling all my Brubeck discs and now only own the 5-CD "Time" box set. (for Paul Desmond)

Edited June 10, 2010 by mikelz777

[Larry Kart]

With a few exceptions, Tommy Flanagan and (sorry) Hank Jones.

Zoot IMO is terrific through 1957, so fresh and fluent; during his Mulligan CJB tenure, it's like his style became a "style." Some of the Pablos do have a latter-day version of his former freshness, and I recall some fine live performances too. I suspect that booze intake (Zoot's, not mine) had a lot to do with what I think I'm hearing. By contrast, Al Cohn kept getting better and better; his latter-day recordings for Xanadu et al. are his best IMO.

Phil Woods' transformation circa 1958 from one of the most interesting alto saxophonists around into a professionally "hot," jazzy player is one of the great mysteries to me. Early Woods (e.g. the album "Pot Pie" with John Eardley, perhaps up through his sideman work on the Red Garland album "Sugan") is often a joy; afterwards, IMO it's like a bebop circus act. I've babbled on about this on other threads IIRC.

Clark Terry, again with a few exceptions -- e.g. his 1955 album "Swahili" and the Riverside date with Monk and Philly Joe. Too often, later on, he just trots out his shtick.

P.S. Mulligan as a soloist, though I think he got better in his later years.

[Dan Gould]

I've babbled on about this on other threads IIRC.

Yes, and I continue to find it baffling, despite the apparent agreement from the rest of the Organissimo Wise Men .

FWIW, in the wake of my LP sales I've been transferring Scott Hamilton LPs and instead of finding it sonic wallpaper I am being pleasantly reminded why I enjoyed his playing right from the get-go.

There's something I'm sure you find baffling yourself, Larry.

[BeBop]

Gerry Mulligan is another who never really did much for me. Among the West Coasters, his playing always struck me as particularly soul-less, perhaps not as much as those oboe and flute albums, but far from soul-stirring.

[skeith]

Three that come to mind are Cecil Taylor, Herbie Nichols and Betty Carter. I recognize their talents, but they don't do anything for me.

[BillF]

Three that come to mind are Cecil Taylor, Herbie Nichols and Betty Carter. I recognize their talents, but they don't do anything for me.

Certainly not together!

[BeBop]

Speaking of singers: Chet Baker.

Baker the trumpet player, I enjoyed. And Baker the barstool raconteur.

But the singing went from ho-hum in the early days to "this borders on irritating" in the later.

[Niko]

some i like better than others, some i've tried harder with than with others, anyway, here's my big band of artists i've never really liked

Clark Terry

Freddie Hubbard

Miles Davis

Bob Brookmeyer

Nils Landgren

George Lewis

Gary Bartz

James Moody

Dexter Gordon

Joe Lovano

Gerry Mulligan

Pat Metheny

Dave Brubeck

Eddie Gomez

Peter Erskine

[colinmce]

Though I enjoy him greatly, the amount of Coltrane I own rather outpaces my enthusiasm for him. Save a few late Impulse! dates, I have his entire recorded (or, more accurately, offically released) works as a leader, but wouldn't rank him at the top of my list of favorites and only listen to his records every so often. Perhaps the large amount of them I have has something to do with this, though.

[CJ Shearn]

A 3rd vote "for" Pat Metheny.

have you checked out 80/81? Some incredible blowing from Pat, Mike Brecker and Dewey Redman. "Every Day (I Thank You)" is one of Pat's best tunes melodically and harmonically. You really shouldn't ask me though b/c I own just about everything Pat has recorded as a leader . Can't wait to see him live in October on the "Orchestrion" tour.

Edited June 10, 2010 by CJ Shearn

[Ted O'Reilly]

Clark Terry, again with a few exceptions -- e.g. his 1955 album "Swahili" and the Riverside date with Monk and Philly Joe. Too often, later on, he just trots out his shtick.

I wonder if there are players who are better as a sideman than leader? As if the player thinks "It's not my name on it -- it won't 'cost' me anything to take chances..."

When it comes to his own name, he plays it safe: "Don't want to scare anyone away..."

[ep1str0phy]

A 3rd vote "for" Pat Metheny.

have you checked out 80/81? Some incredible blowing from Pat, Mike Brecker and Dewey Redman. "Every Day (I Thank You)" is one of Pat's best tunes melodically and harmonically. You really shouldn't ask me though b/c I own just about everything Pat has recorded as a leader . Can't wait to see him live in October on the "Orchestrion" tour.

Granted I'm a big fan of Pat in certain doses (Song X--which is still the most facile translation of Ornette's phrasing to the guitar anyone has ever done--the trio with Haden and Higgins), I got 80/81 in the midst of a big Dewey Redman binge and found myself kind of perplexed at the completely unironic smooth jazz flourishes in Metheny's writing and playing. It's completely not my bag, but I wholeheartedly respect and, in some perverse way, support Metheny's reluctance to go down any clearly defined, conventionally "tasteful" career path.

[mikelz777]

Clark Terry, again with a few exceptions -- e.g. his 1955 album "Swahili" and the Riverside date with Monk and Philly Joe. Too often, later on, he just trots out his shtick.

I wonder if there are players who are better as a sideman than leader? As if the player thinks "It's not my name on it -- it won't 'cost' me anything to take chances..."

When it comes to his own name, he plays it safe: "Don't want to scare anyone away..."

I don't know if he's better as a sideman than he is as a leader but I personally prefer Oscar Peterson much more as a sideman than I do as a leader.

I'm also on the same page with Clark Terry. "Swahili" is the only title I have in his name.

Edited June 10, 2010 by mikelz777