Hans (J.A.W) deleted my post

[Bright Moments]

Hans (J.A.W.) deleted my post which commented on the high prices a board member was seeking for his cd's on ebay. This is the email chain which followed:

From Hans:

Sent Today, 08:41 AM

Hi,

The "Offering & Looking For" forum is for selling and buying stuff only, it's not a forum to discuss prices, so please do not discuss the prices someone's asking for the stuff they're selling. Thank you.

My Response:

Sent Today, 01:38 PM

did i miss a rule somewhere? if i did i am sorry but i don't recall ever reading a rule like this.

From Hans:

Sent Today, 01:49 PM

No, but, as Jim has said in the past when this came up in the "Offering & Looking For" forum, criticizing asking prices is in bad taste. Of course members are free to send the seller a PM, but it should be out of the public eye.

My Response:

Sent Today, 07:08 PM

sorry hans - i disagree. but i am fair - either put it to a vote or establish it as a written rule of the forum. i don't like or appreciate censorship. you have overstepped your authority in my opinion.

____________

Hans just deleted my post because he was offended. There is no Rule that I violated, just his opinion. This is censorship of the worst kind and i am Pissed!!!

[Chuck Nessa]

Not good.

[Aggie87]

I think people are free to ask whatever they want for a cd. If you think their prices are out of line, that should be in a PM, IMO.

Suggesting their prices are high (or giving examples of the item cheaper elsewhere) only hurts the seller.

I think this has been a long standing board policy, to the best of my knowledge.

And sharing the details of a private conversation without the agreement of the other party is in equally bad taste, IMO.

[Bright Moments]

Hans - i don't agree with Aggie's post. Please delete it.

(sarcasm intended)

[Kevin Bresnahan]

If I put something up for sale and you added a post to my thread saying that 1) you think my price is too high and/or 2) showing a lower priced copy of the CD I was selling, I would be pretty damn upset. Think about it that way. Imagine if it was your sale.

When you come right down to it, it's really none of your business. If a seller is asking too much, the market will quickly show him/her the error of their way. If someone thinks it's a good price, you're a bit of a jerk for telling them not to buy it. If it's more than YOU think it's worth, that's your opinion. If it bugs you that much, E-mail/pm the seller and tell him/her that there are cheaper alternatives.

Hans had it right here. A "For sale" thread is no place for a discussion about the best price for a CD/LP.

[JSngry]

Looks like there needs to be a legislation to determine this mater of taste. It's a serious matter, and if there's not a "general consensus" on record, then there needs to be. So, somebody either create a poll or have Jim directly input the final answer, ok?

Might have been a more tasteful way to have broached the subject, however.

Edited June 7, 2010 by JSngry

[Big Wheel]

Suggesting their prices are high (or giving examples of the item cheaper elsewhere) only hurts the seller.

Obviously it doesn't only hurt the seller; this kind of information is very useful to less-savvy buyers. I agree that there is a line in there somewhere where good taste is crossed, though.

[Bright Moments]

my comment was only:

"I wish that the starting bids were 1/4 the price" or words to that effect (unfortunately i can't remember exactly and the post has been DELETED!)

I did not post cheaper copies that could be obtained elsewhere or say anything else.

[Big Wheel]

my comment was only:

"I wish that the starting bids were 1/4 the price" or words to that effect (unfortunately i can't remember exactly and the post has been DELETED!)

I did not post cheaper copies that could be obtained elsewhere or say anything else.

Wait, this was just a link to an auction? If that's the case, deleting your post is bullshit. You aren't just helping other buyers, you're giving useful information to the seller that could help him sell his stuff faster.

[Bright Moments]

yes. this is the thread in question:

[Dave James]

I don't think the post should have been deleted without consulting the other moderators, but I agree that the Offering & Looking For forum is not the place to discuss pricing.

[Big Wheel]

Given those circumstances (auction, relatively new poster doing the auctioning*, and the fact that you were communicating your intent to possibly buy if the reserves were lower) deleting your post seems like really the wrong call.

*In fact, a search for that member's posts suggests that their only participation on the boards is to hawk their ebay auctions. So it's OK for sellers to use this discussion board as their personal advertising for their ebay account, but it's not OK to discuss the aspects of their auctions?

Edited June 7, 2010 by Big Wheel

[Bright Moments]

[Christiern]

Shades of SH

[JSngry]

Enough drama. Somebody who cares just create a poll, eh?

[Aggie87]

Well now it seems there's more information than what was originally posted (and I responded to).

I agree in principle that threads in the Offering forum aren't the place to tell a seller his prices are off (so in principle I agree with Hans' point), but I also don't really care for board "members" who are only here to advertise their eBay auctions - they really aren't part of this community.

Zzzzzoltan is that kinda board "member".

edit - I think this all should have been handled via PM conversation with Hans, and if you still didn't agree with his logic, perhaps a PM convo with Jim. No need to share private conversations like this...

Edited June 7, 2010 by Aggie87

[J.A.W.]

I will only make the comments below and stay out of this thread for the rest:

a) Not allowing criticism of asking prices has been board policy for quite some time now, whether you like it or not.

b) Contrary to what he claimed I was not offended by Bright Moments' deleted post; personal feelings don't play any part in this.

c) I don't appreciate that Bright Moments made my PMs public without asking my permission; that's in bad taste.

d) There's no difference between criticizing asking prices in a sale ad and criticizing asking prices in an auction ad, no matter who posted the ad, a newbie or a long-time member; there's no rule or board policy that forbids newbies - relative or not - to post ads like this.

[RDK]

My two cents:

* I really don't care if someone is a member merely to hawk his wares. Everyone has different reasons to join a forum. That said, I wouldn't necessarily trust him more than I would any Ebay seller.

* While it's generally not cool to criticize a seller's sales price, I don't think BM crossed the line with his post (per how he said he stated it). That said, I don't think a rule about it is necessarily in order. If someone wants to be a dick about it and routinely criticize, so be it - and I'll trust other board members for calling him out on it. (And I'll add that I don't think, in this case, BM was being dickish about it.)

* Yes, it bothers me that BM's post was deleted. I don't think it was necessary per the reasons given above.

[Big Wheel]

My two cents:

* I really don't care if someone is a member merely to hawk his wares. Everyone has different reasons to join a forum.

And that's fine. I have no problem with people coming here to do that. The problem is with the expectation that the board then becomes protected space for them to post their auctions without any meaningful discussion, criticism, etc. by potential buyers. That's crap. If you want that, set up some affiliate links, post them to threads that are automatically locked to other posts, and use the links to give Jim a healthy kickback on the sales you make in exchange for allowing you completely unfettered advertising.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Big Wheel

[papsrus]

Dang. I was just gonna put some stuff up for sale.

I want a pleasurable experience though.

Shit, now what?

[Free For All]

dickish

I like that word. Dickish. Dickesque. Dickaciousness. Dickensian. Oh wait, that last one's real.

[Bright Moments]

I will only make the comments below and stay out of this thread for the rest:

a) Not allowing criticism of asking prices has been board policy for quite some time now, whether you like it or not.

b) Contrary to what he claimed I was not offended by Bright Moments' deleted post; personal feelings don't play any part in this.

c) I don't appreciate that Bright Moments made my PMs public without asking my permission; that's in bad taste.

d) There's no difference between criticizing asking prices in a sale ad and criticizing asking prices in an auction ad, no matter who posted the ad, a newbie or a long-time member; there's no rule or board policy that forbids newbies - relative or not - to post ads like this.

while i agree that im most cases PM's should remain private unless both parties agree otherwise, in this case it was appropriate to publish the PM's. As a Moderator, you need to use your power and authority justly. You did not. The only recourse for me to demonstrate this injustice was to point it out publicly to expose it to those who will be affected next time, and the time after that by your ultra vires acts, unless and until you are called to task.

[Aggie87]

while i agree that im most cases PM's should remain private unless both parties agree otherwise, in this case it was appropriate to publish the PM's. As a Moderator, you need to use your power and authority justly. You did not. The only recourse for me to demonstrate this injustice was to point it out publicly to expose it to those who will be affected next time, and the time after that by your ultra vires acts, unless and until you are called to task.

Not sure I agree that Hans was unjust. He's doing what he believes is right, based on the rules as he understands them. He's also doing a volunteer job - not sure any of the rest of us could do better. To criticize a volunteer isn't very cool - it would be like criticizing my son's volunteer little league baseball coach. I.E., if you can do better, step on up and give it a try.

And I don't think that was your only recourse - going to Jim would have been much more appropriate, only after you and Hans weren't able to reach an understanding.

[Brad]

As a former moderator on another forum, where we have exacting rules on commenting on sellers and their auctions, I believe Hans did the right thing. He has also acted judiciously in making his comments. I also believe it's wrong to publish the contents of a pm discussion. I would be incensed if that had happened to me when I was moderating. Moreover, if someone had started a thread criticizing one of the mods for their actions, it would have been quickly deleted which, by the way, is what I think should happen here.

[seeline]

Many boards have standing policies about quoting PMs: it's not OK to do so, and posts that quote PMs get deleted.

That seems fairest to everyone.