Archie Shepp

[jlhoots]

Any comments on the (relatively) new "First Take" with Shepp and Siegfried Kessler on Archie Ball? I've enjoyed these two together in the past and will certainly be picking this up at some near-term date.

I have this.

Pretty pricey, but I enjoy it.

[AndrewHill]

New to this thread, but here's what I have:

On Savoy:

New York Cont. 5/with Bill Dixon on the other half

On Impulse!

Four for Trane

Mama too Tight

On this Night

Fire Music

Way Ahead

Live in San Francisco

Attica Blues

On BYG/Actuel

Poem for Malcolm

Blase

Yasmina A Black Woman

On L+R

Splashes

My favorite, hands down is 4 4 Trane, which is just excellent form start to finish. But a close second and in descending order would have to be Mama too Tight, w/ Fire Music, San Fran, On this Night, and Way Ahead next. A special mention for the Savoy (Dixon/Ny Cont. 5), which I really enjoy, not only for the Cherry/Shepp but for the Dixon too. Splashes is despensible, as for most later Shepp (sorry, but he just lost an edge here, except for the sides he cut w/ Roach in the 70's for e.g.). The 5th of May with Jasper von Hoff, was just not my cup of tea, and sold it within minutes. But I will always remember Shepp for mostly his Impulse! and Actuel sides. I really want to hear his America releases though, which I don't own.

[clifford_thornton]

The Americas are fine, indeed.

For some strange reason, Coral Rock (issued in the US by Prestige) did not make it out as part of the Free America CD series. Nor did the "Uhuru" track from the Pitchin' Can LP (tho the Cal Massey tune by that name is on the Black Gipsy CD).

Shepp had a fine run for Impulse!, but his work for Fontana, Sonet, and Savoy with both the New York Contemporary Five and Bill Dixon is fantastic. The Dixon-Shepp Quartet on Savoy is a stunner!

Interestingly, the Savoy NYCF date is a "fake" - Shepp and Tchicai are present, and though Cherry showed up to the studio to play his tune "Consequences," Ted Curson did most of the trumpet playing. As Tchicai has discussed, the band dissolved in 1963, prior to the Savoy recording.

[John L]

On the subject of Shepp's transformation from outside to inside, I recall an interview where Shepp took that question head on. His answer was that he was always about blues and roots, first and foremost. Inside-outside is not a particularly important distinction to him.

That may be far from a 100% honest answer. But I do think that there is something to it. Shepp is and was a fine blues player. That has always been at the heart of what he was doing, then and now. He was part of the Ornette-inspired new thing school in the 60s that used the free jazz context as a means of breathing something new and exciting into the blues. Once the "new thing" in that respect became an "old thing," perhaps it became less important for Shepp's purposes.

That said, the Shepp that I reach for the most is 60s-70s vintage. The excitement of explortation there was never really replaced.

Edited June 18, 2007 by John L

[Christiern]

Remember this album?

The photo was taken in a window that gave me a view up and down West 82nd Street when this was where I lived. My friend Ole Brask took over the place in '63, when I moved to my present apartment. He also moved in when I moved out, and took the cover photo of Archie. More recently, I took my camera to 81st Street and captured a current view of my old lookout spot (the top window:

Just a little Shepp aside.

[bertrand]

Speaking of Shepp, does anyone know how to contact him?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

PS: His website has a phone number - I'll try that first.

[clifford_thornton]

Remember this album?

The photo was taken in a window that gave me a view up and down West 82nd Street when this was where I lived. My friend Ole Brask took over the place in '63, when I moved to my present apartment. He also moved in when I moved out, and took the cover photo of Archie. More recently, I took my camera to 81st Street and captured a current view of my old lookout spot (the top window:

Just a little Shepp aside.

Nice digs!

Thanks!

[felser]

On the subject of Shepp's transformation from outside to inside, I recall an interview where Shepp took that

That said, the Shepp that I reach for the most is 60s-70s vintage. The excitement of explortation there was never really replaced.

Totally agree. It's like his music suddenly lost the ghost in 1977 and never recovered except for an occasional little flicker of what had been and could be. I find it really sad to listen to the recordings later than that, knowing what's been left behind.

[B. Clugston]

I found an interesting (if perhaps not exceptionally good) record today that I hadn't heard of before: Archie Shepp & Philly Joe Jones, w/ Anthony Braxton on board (catalog number Fantasy 86018). The record is in great shape, but the recording quality is quite poor. It still has its moments, though. Has this ever been reissued in any format?

Half of it ("The Lowlands") turned up on some shady Swiss or Andorran bootleg along with the Art Ensemble of Chicago's Certain Blacks in a CD attributed to Chicago Beau. I liked what I heard from it.

[jlhoots]

I don't have any major quarrel with recent statements in this thread.

Early Shepp was undeniable.

However - I wouldn't dismiss the Venus CDs. There is a poignancy in the playing that I find moving.

Admittedly the "technique" isn't there anymore - ? like latter day Billie Holiday??

[AndrewHill]

The Americas are fine, indeed.

For some strange reason, Coral Rock (issued in the US by Prestige) did not make it out as part of the Free America CD series. Nor did the "Uhuru" track from the Pitchin' Can LP (tho the Cal Massey tune by that name is on the Black Gipsy CD).

Shepp had a fine run for Impulse!, but his work for Fontana, Sonet, and Savoy with both the New York Contemporary Five and Bill Dixon is fantastic. The Dixon-Shepp Quartet on Savoy is a stunner!

Interestingly, the Savoy NYCF date is a "fake" - Shepp and Tchicai are present, and though Cherry showed up to the studio to play his tune "Consequences," Ted Curson did most of the trumpet playing. As Tchicai has discussed, the band dissolved in 1963, prior to the Savoy recording.

Yes, would love to hear the Dixon-Shepp disc, but I understand that a reissue of this one seems unlikely. I didn't really know about the Cherry-Curson situation on the other Savoy. Pretty interesting! I will have to hunt down the Americas.

[dsbinsp]

And I dig the shit out of the cover photo! If I could get the LP cheaper then for around 30-35 bucks (that's the prize these Shepp Impulses go in the one jazz second hand vinyl store in Zurich), I'd get it just for that photo!

My father, Fred Seligo, took the cover photo for the "Live in San Francisco" LP. Unfortunately, my dad died when I was very young. I'm pleased to discover that people still appreciate his work.

Delia Seligo

[clifford_thornton]

Yes, he took a wonderful shot indeed.

Just talked to Archie the other day and he seems very well!

[paul secor]

And I dig the shit out of the cover photo! If I could get the LP cheaper then for around 30-35 bucks (that's the prize these Shepp Impulses go in the one jazz second hand vinyl store in Zurich), I'd get it just for that photo!

My father, Fred Seligo, took the cover photo for the "Live in San Francisco" LP. Unfortunately, my dad died when I was very young. I'm pleased to discover that people still appreciate his work.

Delia Seligo

Always loved that photo. Welcome to the Board.

[B. Goren.]

I've lisrened recently to a lotof A Shepp recordings. This is one of his best IMHO.

I Know About the Life

[Durium]

ARCHIE SHEPP

Some pictures - Archie Shepp in Middelburg (Holland) - May 2008

Kep Swinging

Durium

[stevebop]

To hear Archie tells his story in his own words, go to:

www.wgbh.org/jazz

Look for the picture of Yusef Lateef: Jazz Portraits

Click there and scroll to Archie Shepp

I had a great time putting that Special together

Enjoy!

[Shawn]

I don't have any major quarrel with recent statements in this thread.

Early Shepp was undeniable.

However - I wouldn't dismiss the Venus CDs. There is a poignancy in the playing that I find moving.

Admittedly the "technique" isn't there anymore - ? like latter day Billie Holiday??

Agree 100%.

[Bright Moments]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! MAMA TOO TIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chuck Nessa]

40+ years of pleasure here.

[ep1str0phy]

I've lisrened recently to a lotof A Shepp recordings. This is one of his best IMHO.

I Know About the Life

All due respect, of course, and enough has been said of Shepp and standards on this board, but that version of "Giant Steps" leaves me way, way cold. It's weird how that tune has become a repertoire piece, considering it seems to have been conceived as sort of a developmental pivot point for (Coltrane) a really specific musical personality with a very distinct arc of development. It's a fun and edifying workout, but sometimes I wonder what the point is --much more so than with, say, "All the Things You Are," which isn't necessarily the easiest set of chord changes but--at least--does not transgress too many vernacular conventions in terms of harmonic conceit (relative to, say, the greater body of Great American Songbook stuff). (I say this with hindsight probably clouding my vision, especially considering the heavy, heavy contemporary academic emphasis on Giant Steps changes and whatnot)...

Anyway, my issue being twofold: 1) What the hell? It's a Coltrane tune and he parlayed Giant Steps changes into other things, anyway--why treat it as a final goal when Trane seemed to deal with it as an (important) pit stop (or find your own pit stop...), 2) OK--so you're paying homage to Trane by recording the piece in your "own fashion"--nothing stopping you here--but I'd like to point out that Trane did not, himself, (as far as I know) revisit that composition under the pretense of eschewing the form, playing pitchy, and distorting the piece's rhythmic cohesion... so why not just pay tribute by doing your own thing? Something, like, Four For Trane--which does, in its own way, resolve the rhythmic and (at least) melodic logic of Giant Steps-era Trane with the timbral and harmonic freedom that Shepp has classically excelled at (or Trane seemed to champion in his final years)? Or anything else, really?

Anyway, when Trane did anything like this--for example, the Live in Seattle "Body and Soul"--the piece wasn't really the point--or at least it doesn't seem like it was the big thing, since the ensemble wasn't all about performing a tight, clearly stated rendition of the standard in quite the manner it was when Coltrane's Sound was waxed.

My principal issue with this sort of thing is that Shepp isn't just choosing a vehicle for performance--he's calling attention to the repertoire by virtue of its inclusion, even while he undermines some of the repertoire's defining/identifying principles.

Again, polar opposite of Four for Trane--Shepp is making a statement for certain Trane-originated musical principles often disregarded by the post-Trane wing of the free revolution--key among them clearly-delineated swing time, non-pentatonic harmony, and clear, cleanly played thematic material that is integral to and integrated within--rather than incidental to--the improvisation. At the same time, the pieces are clearly recognizable in a way that conveys thoughtfulness and a familiarity with material: for example, the way in which the arrangement of "Syeeda's Song Flute" circumvents the absence of a piano, so crucial to Trane's music, by layering the horns into dense chords with limited melodic motion--continuing to reference Giant Steps harmony--is genius. It's effect is like the exact midway point between Ellington, Ornette, and '59/'60 Coltrane. (I acknowledge that Roswell Rudd had a lot to do with this, but a lot of Shepp's Rudd-less music has similar merit, so whatever.)

But man, that version of "Giant Steps"--ugh...

[ep1str0phy]

And before this devolves into a conversation on Shepp and, similarly, Braxton, I would like to point out that I do often feel as if Braxton has spent enough time with the standards to get something worthwhile out of them than material to blow all over. In the Tradition gets bashed on a ton, but that version of "Goodbye Porkpie Hat" completely gets it (for me anyway).

[fomafomic65]

For later Shepp...

aaah yes!

I recently got a copy of the album Hi Fly he did with Karin Krog. I am ashamed to admit I haven't even listened to it yet. Is it any good? (easy to answer by listening I know, but maybe someone has something to add)

Yes, it definitely is; listen it some times. It's a very good session and they match in an unpredictable, very interesting way; Krog here seems more 'black' than him! Hi-Fly is some of the BEST later Shepp, in my opinion. He seems really stimulated in the setting and clearly by the singer's performance.

I am another severe judge of the last forgettable 20 + some years of mr.Fire music's work. I saw him live twice and found both experiences quite embarrasing I'd never take another risk. He 'sung' more than he played, and he merely, poorly shouted and played pretty bad.

I long Love his Impulse!, BYG and Enja's Steam cd, though.

[AllenLowe]

just an interesting aside - last November when I saw Roswell Rudd, he told me that he'ds spoken to Shepp about France, where Shepp is apparently quite the legend - and Shepp told him that people in that country were naming their children after him.

[coolman]

could anyone rip Archie Shepp's Attica Blues Big Band 2CD for me?