free jazz album i got, is this a good one?

[Man with the Golden Arm]

labor

worth watching all six ensuing parts

[Dan Gould]

I don't really have an opinion about Murray - which is to say whatever I've heard isn't appealing enough to want more, or to listen again) but isn't he the one whose ballad playing Larry Kart rather colorfully described? I've always wondered what it means to play a ballad as if you were yelling to the woman across the bar "I want to f*ck you." (I paraphrase here.)

[JSngry]

Hell, that's pretty much the message of all ballad playing!

[Dan Gould]

Yeah, but unless its 2 AM and the beer goggles are on, the good ones use a little more florid, romantic language, right?

The rest are douchebags:

[JohnS]

Strange, Murray always generates strong opinions both for and against on this board!! Not sure why he should arouse such strong opinions. Me, I'm a BIG fan and have been since 1976. I've seen him in just about every combination from solo through to the all-star big band and he still excites me.

[AndrewHill]

I have not heard everything Murray's done, but I like this one a great deal and he has a cracklin' rhythm section on it too. I agree with whoever recommended the cd set, which expands the music generously over two disks, but it be may be OOP though.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Holy Ghost

[kh1958]

Now I can't wait to go to J&R to buy some David Murray albums. The cognoscenti will be exchanging contemptuous glances...

[JETman]

Now I can't wait to go to J&R to buy some David Murray albums. The cognoscenti will be exchanging contemptuous glances...

You guys definitely like to hold onto a word or phrase, don't you?

Btw, you wouldn't know where to find it.

[clifford_thornton]

Jeez, it's funny - I like some of Murray's work and all of a sudden I'm an apologist for his entire body of recordings / persona.

[JETman]

Jeez, it's funny - I like some of Murray's work and all of a sudden I'm an apologist for his entire body of recordings / persona.

I think you're reading too much into some of the comments in this thread. If you're feeling guilt, then you've got other issues to deal with.

[kh1958]

Now I can't wait to go to J&R to buy some David Murray albums. The cognoscenti will be exchanging contemptuous glances...

You guys definitely like to hold onto a word or phrase, don't you?

Btw, you wouldn't know where to find it.

I wouldn't know where to find J&R? Isn't it still on Park Row? All prior attempts to find it have been successful.

[JETman]

Didn't think you'd dare venture into the big, BAD city!

[clifford_thornton]

Jeez, it's funny - I like some of Murray's work and all of a sudden I'm an apologist for his entire body of recordings / persona.

I think you're reading too much into some of the comments in this thread. If you're feeling guilt, then you've got other issues to deal with.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[JSngry]

Here's the deal - everybody wants HEROES & GIANTS because that's what used to be. Well, today...not so much, so a lot of people seem to have lost any sense of balance when it comes to "critical evaluation" (as in individual sensibilities, not "the critics", although that shoe fits quite often as well...). So when a guy puts out as much as Murray has, the gut reaction is either HE'S GREAT! or HE SUCKS! Nothing in between, which is a shame, really because that's a great deal of his work lies, and all things considered, that ain't a bad place to be.

Jeez, it's funny - I like some of Murray's work and all of a sudden I'm an apologist for his entire body of recordings / persona.

See?

[Hoppy T. Frog]

(i liked Waltz Again)

[clifford_thornton]

So chewy, what do you think of it?

[AllenLowe]

"What does an amateurish arrangement sound like? What does a professionalish arrangement sound like"

I missed this question earlier - simple answer - an amatuer arrangement sounds like it was written by someone who has no real sense of musical organization, no idea how to arrange for multiple instruments, no musical personality.

A pro has not only the ideas but the tools to carry off his ideas, and a sense of how to write for multiple voices.

Compare Murray to, say, Julius Hemphill, and you will understand.

Edited May 19, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Pete C]

"What does an amateurish arrangement sound like? What does a professionalish arrangement sound like"

I missed this question earlier - simple answer - an amatuer arrangement sounds like it was written by someone who has no real sense of musical organization, no idea how to arrange for multiple instruments, no musical personality.

A pro has not only the ideas but the tools to carry off his ideas, and a sense of how to write for multiple voices.

Compare Murray to, say, Julius Hemphill, and you will understand.

Granted, we can agree that Hemphill was great, but we'll have to disagree on the octet arrangements. If I remember correctly, when Black Saint/Soul Note had a group of critics pick the top albums in the catalog, Ming was the consensus winner, FWIW.

[AllenLowe]

some of that was good, as I recall - this was my response to a youtube clip.

Murray is a mixed thing - I think he's done some good work but also some gimmicky stuff that does a good job of impersonating good work, and that a lot of critics over praised.

[JETman]

Murray is a mixed thing - I think he's done some good work but also some gimmicky stuff that does a good job of impersonating good work, and that a lot of critics over praised.

Hence my use of the term "poseur".

[king ubu]

but you think Ware isn't?

anyway, I think chewy actually meant the thread title as in "jazz album I got for free"

[clifford_thornton]

Ware has done some really enjoyable, excellent stuff and some really annoying, boring stuff. The quartet got really tiring toward the end of its life, with some corny and almost "poppy" approach to rhythm, I thought, but the new solo disc is awesome. His playing with Cyrille, Hooker, and Beaver Harris is/was fantastic, though I saw him in a duo with Rashied Ali that made me really depressed for the state of the music (ca. 2000/2001). Wasn't even listening in the slightest to what Ali was doing.

Edited May 19, 2010 by clifford_thornton

[king ubu]

The owls are not what they seem...

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

So chewy, what do you think of it?

i dont know yet! ill have to report back....

[Clunky]

I regret to say that I remain rather bored by Murray. It's been quite some time since I listened. My fault probably for buying too many similar albums by him in a short period of time ( in early 90s) I was captivated by "Ballads" and the "Ballads fo bass clarinet" on DIW, these were among the first "avantgarde" ( as I viewed them at the time) releases that I'd heard, they were acessible and "modern" and a clear step forward from my standard listening at that time. My collection of 20 or so CD/LPs needs revisting then thinning.