Sam Rivers Mosaic this November

[relyles]

It has been several years since I have listened to it, so I can't really comment. But, I will have to dig it up and give it a listen again soon.

[Hot Ptah]

Oh yeah, one of the things that makes him so compelling to me. He came out of that great late 1940s/early 50s Boston jazz scene. Weizen, have you ever checked out an ancient Night Lights show I did (waaaaay back in the day, only the 3rd or 4th one I'd ever done) called A Brief Convergence: Miles Davis and Sam Rivers in 1964? You might enjoy Sam in that context (the show also uses a couple of tracks from the Blue Note/Mosaic box).

I know he goes way back with Roy Haynes and Jaki Byard and was brought to Miles by Tony Williams. It would be fun if some recordings surfaced of Sam playing with Charlie Mariano.

Are you the Pete C who is the JSngry of Jazz Corner Speakeasy? If so, welcome to this board, and I look forward to your contributions.

[Pete C]

Are you the Pete C who is the JSngry of Jazz Corner Speakeasy? If so, welcome to this board, and I look forward to your contributions.

I am the Pete C who is the Pete C of Speakeasy, but I'm not sure what you mean. Is JSngry prone to bad puns?

I was here some years ago. I appear to be back.

[papsrus]

\

I am the Pete C who is the Pete C of Speakeasy, but I'm not sure what you mean. Is JSngry prone to bad puns?

Hard to tell. More like cosmic Thompsonisms sprinkled with Texas hot sauce. Seems to work just fine.

Welcome (back?)

[JSngry]

WTF is a Thompsonism?

And are you the Pete that's a bass player from Lititz, PA? If so, we've done business before, to good ends. So yeah, welcome back!

No..that's Pete B. Never mind.

Alright, then, WTF is a Thompsonism?

And welcome back!

[papsrus]

WTF is a Thompsonism?

And are you the Pete that's a bass player from Lititz, PA? If so, we've done business before, to good ends. So yeah, welcome back!

No..that's Pete B. Never mind.

Alright, then, WTF is a Thompsonism?

And welcome back!

'Gonzo-isms' might have been a better way to characterize it. With all due affection.

[JSngry]

ah, THAT Thompson. Cool.

Thanks!

[wag]

It's interesting that Mosaic is releasing more "avant garde" (or whatever the proper term is) sets lately, as opposed to the emphasis on swing era material. Maybe the Braxton set sold well or something?

I know Mosaic is in some sort of financial crisis right now but have they given us any reason to believe that what they pick to release is not based on it being what they believe is really good jazz and not by how well it will sell or (since it is a limited edition) how fast it will sell?

[David Ayers]

It's interesting that Mosaic is releasing more "avant garde" (or whatever the proper term is) sets lately, as opposed to the emphasis on swing era material. Maybe the Braxton set sold well or something?

I know Mosaic is in some sort of financial crisis right now but have they given us any reason to believe that what they pick to release is not based on it being what they believe is really good jazz and not by how well it will sell or (since it is a limited edition) how fast it will sell?

Well! You could argue that the Braxton set was designed NOT to sell since it included material that is of no more than curiosity value which bumped up the price. So in that sense we might assume that the Rivers will be relatively uncompromised. That said, the thing you can see Mosaic doing now is aiming for 7CD set as their optimum price point, so you have to hope they don't include mediocre material or just more of the same to bulk up the set. These things find their own level though.

Whatever happens it won't be 'Sam Rivers plays Kenny G'. If they include already-issued material I'll ignore it, personally, and especially if they use a needledrop as they did for the Andrew Hill, which was a poor show IMO. I'm hoping for the best.

[Head Man]

If they include already-issued material I'll ignore it, personally, and especially if they use a needledrop as they did for the Andrew Hill, which was a poor show IMO. I'm hoping for the best.

What 'needle-drop' music are you referring to here?

[David Ayers]

If they include already-issued material I'll ignore it, personally, and especially if they use a needledrop as they did for the Andrew Hill, which was a poor show IMO. I'm hoping for the best.

What 'needle-drop' music are you referring to here?

The originally released tracks on the solo Select.

[Hot Ptah]

Are you the Pete C who is the JSngry of Jazz Corner Speakeasy? If so, welcome to this board, and I look forward to your contributions.

I am the Pete C who is the Pete C of Speakeasy, but I'm not sure what you mean. Is JSngry prone to bad puns?

I was here some years ago. I appear to be back.

What I mean is that you have about 33,000 posts on Jazz Corner Speakeaasy, and contribute a great deal of valuable input to that board, much like JSngry here.

[happy the clown]

It's interesting that Mosaic is releasing more "avant garde" (or whatever the proper term is) sets lately, as opposed to the emphasis on swing era material. Maybe the Braxton set sold well or something?

I know Mosaic is in some sort of financial crisis right now but have they given us any reason to believe that what they pick to release is not based on it being what they believe is really good jazz and not by how well it will sell or (since it is a limited edition) how fast it will sell?

Well! You could argue that the Braxton set was designed NOT to sell since it included material that is of no more than curiosity value which bumped up the price.

I'd be interested in hearing that argument, or what exactly the material is on the Braxton set that is of "no more than curiosity value". I'll admit there's material I like more than some of the other stuff, but I don't see where any of it is invalid or mere novelty.

Edited May 20, 2010 by happy the clown

[colinmce]

If they include already-issued material I'll ignore it, personally, and especially if they use a needledrop as they did for the Andrew Hill, which was a poor show IMO. I'm hoping for the best.

What 'needle-drop' music are you referring to here?

The originally released tracks on the solo Select.

But weren't the masters unavailable?

[MartyJazz]

I regularly attended Studio Rivbea back in the early and mid '70s and got to know Sam pretty well at that time, the main reason being that I gave him a copy of the Miles Davis Quintet in Kyoto, July 15, 1964, the evening after the Tokyo concert that was originally released by Columbia in Japan only. He was extremely grateful for that and in fact, received the open reel tape copy from me by coming to my apartment in Brooklyn Heights with Beatrice one glorious weekend afternoon. Anyway, to get to the point, Sam thereafter loaned me quite a few of the taped sessions that were made at Rivbea during that time from which I made copies, open reel tapes that I have yet to transfer to CD-R. They are all pretty similar in that for the most part, the sets consisted of free playing by Sam on tenor, soprano and flute, backed by bass and drums only, usually David Holland and Barry Altschul. As would be expected, there are moments of tremendous energy and excitement throughout. The fidelity is generally quite good as Sam would have a semi-professional open reel deck on stage when he was recording in the intimate setting that was his venue and living quarters, Studio Rivbea on Bond Street in the East Village of NYC.

[clifford_thornton]

Cool story.

Unless they mix it up with some unique bands, however, I can see something like this being just fine in a three or five disc set.

[David Ayers]

If they include already-issued material I'll ignore it, personally, and especially if they use a needledrop as they did for the Andrew Hill, which was a poor show IMO. I'm hoping for the best.

What 'needle-drop' music are you referring to here?

The originally released tracks on the solo Select.

But weren't the masters unavailable?

All I was saying is that I am not in the market for LPs I already own, especially from a needledrop. I shouldn't have mentioned that gripe of mine since it isn't at this point relevant to the Rivers set.

[AmirBagachelles]

And still no re-issue of Contrasts from ECM. That is a strange omission. It is one of Sam Rivers' most unique visions and one of the best ECM records I know.

[David Ayers]

And still no re-issue of Contrasts from ECM. That is a strange omission. It is one of Sam Rivers' most unique visions and one of the best ECM records I know.

Gosh - I don't really agree. I find that session incredibly reined in, like others of those where the artist struggles to match the ECM model. I had the LP and sold it, so go figure. Its non-reissue seems hard to explain, though: it must be about the highest-profile straight ECM title never to have had a CD issue, even in Japan. Maybe the producer doesn't want to reissue it?

Edited May 23, 2010 by David Ayers

[Pete C]

For me the Rivbea trio had a groove going that distinguished it from most '60s free jazz and also anticipates the groove of later trios like DKV and Romano-Sclavis-Texier. But it comes largely, I think, from the Ornette-Izenson-Moffett trio too.

[gnhrtg]

OT: He meant, dear Pete, number-of-posts wise, I think.

[Face of the Bass]

Thread bump...does anybody know if Mosaic is still planning on releasing this set?

[J.A.W.]

Thread bump...does anybody know if Mosaic is still planning on releasing this set?

Some of the planned sets have been put on the back burner. At the moment they're busy trying to get the big Ellington set out on time for Xmas.

[David Ayers]

I'll be interested to know what is on this set. Some of the trio material has long circulated as bootlegs - let's hope it is not just a belated issue of the same stuff. It's a pity that no-one got around to issuing this material way back when, in the heyday of cd. Same with Braxton and Threadgill sets - it all comes a bit late, to my way of thinking. I'll admit I was one of those calling for this set, but I've waited so long I'm a bit past caring. As for Ellington, fine, but we had 4CDs of this from Sony in excellent masters which cost me $7.50 including shipping. I can't quite work out why I need to spend $200 to get the rest.

Edited December 5, 2010 by David Ayers

[Face of the Bass]

Yeah, I understand the whole business side of things, but I'm not sure I could care less about another Mosaic set of Ellington material, whereas the Studio Rivbea stuff could potentially be genuinely "new" stuff, or at least stuff that hasn't been released on "official" compact discs before.