Sam Rivers Mosaic this November

[.:.impossible]

Wow! This is great news! I was fortunate enough to hear Sam Rivers play about ten years ago. He shattered expectations. I drove six hours to hear him.

[Pete C]

I frequented Rivbea in 1974 & '75, usually on weekends. The usual setup was that there would be two groups, and more than half the time Rivers' group was one of them. It was mostly the trio, but sometimes it was augmented by Warren Smith on vibes and percussion, and sometimes other extended groups, including Winds of Manhattan. Those were the days. The first time I saw Arthur Blythe was at Rivbea, as a guest with Frank Lowe (introduced as "Black Arthur"). The first time I saw David Murray was there too, a group led by Sunny Murray. I saw Braxton with Holland, Altschul & Wheeler. And Charles Tyler with the vastly underrated Earl Cross...

[tranemonk]

I'm not that familiar with the music which would be on this set... If I was going to purchase one CD to get a taste of what it's like, what would you recommend??

thanks

[JSngry]

Without knowing what's going to be on the set, that's kind of hard to answer, but this one is a good document of where Rivers was at at the beginning of the period in question:

[jazzbo]

Wow! This is great news! I was fortunate enough to hear Sam Rivers play about ten years ago. He shattered expectations. I drove six hours to hear him.

I saw him around that time frame, with a local quartet. SoulStream was there too. A night I'll never forget.

[GregK]

Holy cow! I'm definitely in on this one!

[Pete C]

I think there was only one album with the Altschul/Holland trio, The Quest, on Red, and I don't think it's ever been on CD.

[CJ Shearn]

Binghamton is very boring. The jazz scene is local guys who play Real Book charts, and outside of the tragic American Civic Association shooting last year, not much happens here in way of violence. Mostly domestic issues in the poorer parts of Binghamton and Endicott.

[Chuck Nessa]

I saw the Rivers/Holland/Altschul band in Chicago around 1977. Talked to Dave and Barry (at the club) about making a record with Warne Marsh (they were up for it but thought Warne wouldn't agree). Warne did not disagress but it never happened, damn it! Mentioned this to Barry a couple of years ago and he remembered.

[jeffcrom]

I think there was only one album with the Altschul/Holland trio, The Quest, on Red, and I don't think it's ever been on CD.

Well, there's also Paragon, on the French Fluid label. I don't think it's been issued on CD, either.

[Hoppy T. Frog]

It sounds like Mosaic sees more sales potential in box sets of the "avant garde" rather than almost anything else now. Along with the Threadgill set, this is going to be a great year!

[David Ayers]

It sounds like Mosaic sees more sales potential in box sets of the "avant garde" rather than almost anything else now. Along with the Threadgill set, this is going to be a great year!

Yeah it's quite surprising, isn't it, at this late stage in the history of the CD! The advantage that the Rivers set has over the Braxton and Threadgill is that the material will (it seems) be wholly new. For me personally, I'm past the point where I'd consider 'replacing' LPs even if a little extra material is served up as a sweetener. I can quite see why people want to sell me stuff I already own but I'm not playing that game any more. The Rivers material, by contrast, will be new to almost everybody and - who knows? - may have a wider and quicker uptake than the Braxton and Threadgill re-treads.

[Dave James]

I'm still having trouble believing that a release from Anthony Braxton, Henry Threadgill or Sam Rivers has more long term sales potential than sets devoted to mainstream jazz or even MOR artists like Bing Crosby or the Four Freshmen. From a purely intuitive standpoint, I can't get my arms around this.

[sidewinder]

Wow! This is great news! I was fortunate enough to hear Sam Rivers play about ten years ago. He shattered expectations. I drove six hours to hear him.

You can't drive far enough to see Sam Rivers. I mentioned it in another thread but when I saw him several years ago he chatted both about Andrew Hill and some of his Blue Note sessions whilst cleaning and packing up his horns (just watching that in itself was worth admission - meticulous) and signed the Mosaic booklet and a few LPs. A very nice person was my opinion.

The gig was brilliant too and I made sure I checked out another of his other UK gigs later in the week.

In recognition, I'll likely pre-order this set when it is available.

It sounds like Mosaic sees more sales potential in box sets of the "avant garde" rather than almost anything else now. Along with the Threadgill set, this is going to be a great year!

It looks like they are normalising around the 'Scott' axis of early and swing era jazz meticulously remastered/presented and the 'Cuscuna' axis of the avant garde. Either way, I'm all for it as it's quality from each end. As long as it doesn't develop into a mouldy figg vs boppers bunfight.. :rsmile:

Edited May 16, 2010 by sidewinder

[alankin]

I'm still having trouble believing that a release from Anthony Braxton, Henry Threadgill or Sam Rivers has more long term sales potential than sets devoted to mainstream jazz or even MOR artists like Bing Crosby or the Four Freshmen. From a purely intuitive standpoint, I can't get my arms around this.

Maybe it comes down to demographics. Fans who listened to the jazz avant-garde in the 1970s are probably now 50 years old and older and likely to have some money available for a box set. How old are the prime Bing Crosby fans? Maybe Cuscuna wants to issue this material by Braxton, Threadgill and Rivers before the window of opportunity closes.

Edited May 16, 2010 by alankin

[happy the clown]

Wow... this is wonderful news. How old is Sam Rivers now? 86 or 87? We saw him in Philadelphia maybe 10 years ago and he was teriffic.

It's interesting that Mosaic is releasing more "avant garde" (or whatever the proper term is) sets lately, as opposed to the emphasis on swing era material. Maybe the Braxton set sold well or something?

Edited May 16, 2010 by happy the clown

[tranemonk]

I'm not sure this one is still in print... Any other recommendations???

thanks again.

Without knowing what's going to be on the set, that's kind of hard to answer, but this one is a good document of where Rivers was at at the beginning of the period in question:

[.:.impossible]

I saw the Rivers/Holland/Altschul band in Chicago around 1977. Talked to Dave and Barry (at the club) about making a record with Warne Marsh (they were up for it but thought Warne wouldn't agree). Warne did not disagress but it never happened, damn it! Mentioned this to Barry a couple of years ago and he remembered.

Chuck

I like this idea. What was the concept, from your perspective? I'm imagining standards approached similar to the

Marsh/Mitchell duets?

[mellowT]

I'm still having trouble believing that a release from Anthony Braxton, Henry Threadgill or Sam Rivers has more long term sales potential than sets devoted to mainstream jazz or even MOR artists like Bing Crosby or the Four Freshmen. From a purely intuitive standpoint, I can't get my arms around this.

I'd have to agree. I have no interest in free jazz Braxton or Threadgill, and if the Rivers set is anything beyond mild avant-garde, it'll be a no-go for me as well.

The only other offering this year is... 9 CDs of piano trio. You've gotta be kidding me. I guess I'll have to find my jazz fix elsewhere.

[Pete C]

I'm not sure this one is still in print... Any other recommendations???

thanks again.

Without knowing what's going to be on the set, that's kind of hard to answer, but this one is a good document of where Rivers was at at the beginning of the period in question:

A bunch of used copies on amazon for about $11. Also excellent (though the mastering could have been a lot better), and available cheap on Amazon is Waves, from 1978 with Holland, Joe Daly and the great Thurman Barker.

I think there was only one album with the Altschul/Holland trio, The Quest, on Red, and I don't think it's ever been on CD.

Well, there's also Paragon, on the French Fluid label. I don't think it's been issued on CD, either.

Thanks for the tip---I found a rapidshare (The Quest can be found too, if anyone's interested)...This group means a lot to me because I saw them so many times when I was 18-19 years old...and the reunion a couple of years ago at Columbia.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Pete C

[JSngry]

The Tomato side might be "difficult" for a newbie...the intonation is very "interpretative" on that one, I think.

But - Sam has a right to do that, and the grooves are killer.

[JSngry]

It's interesting that Mosaic is releasing more "avant garde" (or whatever the proper term is)...

"Post-Coltrane" works for me...I mean, it's not like Coltrane was the end of the music's evolution, it was just the end of (or, if you prefer, "the apex of") harmonic exploration as a foundation for improvising. after that, plenty of people found other things to do.

O-BOARD SPECIFIC DISCLAIMER: Which is not to say that people still can't use harmonic exploration as a basis for "satisfying" music and such, and whatever you "like" is fine and all that, but for the "hungry spirit", once you get to looking into harmony (and I know, "listeners" don't usually give a rat's ass about this, but the musicians who make the music usually do, so it is relevant at some level), you're going to find that it pretty much has all been done (at least with "Western" harmonic systems), and Trane pretty much brought it to that point. Anybody who wants more than that has places to go now, thanks to some people, and those who don't want more than that have at least as many places to go, thanks to other people.

In other words, it happened, it didn't go away, and now it appears that there is a market for historical retrospectives. Unless you're one of those who thinks that it was all one big "mistake" that was motivated by The Forces Of Evil, there's nothing to be upset about other than...live is moving on, as it always does.

[king ubu]

"Paragon" is a great one! And so is "Waves"!

I'd love to see a Select or a big one with Rivers' Impulse sessions (haven't checked what there is, just know "Streams" and have that Trio disc pictured above).

Will definitely be interested in another Rivers Mosaic!

[Chuck Nessa]

I saw the Rivers/Holland/Altschul band in Chicago around 1977. Talked to Dave and Barry (at the club) about making a record with Warne Marsh (they were up for it but thought Warne wouldn't agree). Warne did not disagree but it never happened, damn it! Mentioned this to Barry a couple of years ago and he remembered.

Chuck

I like this idea. What was the concept, from your perspective? I'm imagining standards approached similar to the

Marsh/Mitchell duets?

The idea was for Warne to play whatever he wanted.

[paul secor]

I'm not sure this one is still in print... Any other recommendations???

thanks again.

Without knowing what's going to be on the set, that's kind of hard to answer, but this one is a good document of where Rivers was at at the beginning of the period in question:

A bunch of used copies on amazon for about $11. Also excellent (though the mastering could have been a lot better), and available cheap on Amazon is Waves, from 1978 with Holland, Joe Daly and the great Thurman Barker.

I think there was only one album with the Altschul/Holland trio, The Quest, on Red, and I don't think it's ever been on CD.

Well, there's also Paragon, on the French Fluid label. I don't think it's been issued on CD, either.

Thanks for the tip---I found a rapidshare (The Quest can be found too, if anyone's interested)...This group means a lot to me because I saw them so many times when I was 18-19 years old...and the reunion a couple of years ago at Columbia.

Sam Rivers/Dave Holland: Duo Vo. 1 on Improvising Artists is a very good one. Rivers plays tenor on one side & soprano on the other. I've never cared for Vol. 2 as much - Rivers on flute and piano - but perhaps that's just me. I do recommend Vol. 1 though.