Which BN McMasters sound better than the RVG?

[trane_fanatic]

I've been looking at the old threads here regarding the MM/RVG debate in terms of mastering quality and noticed there were a few select titles (like Somethin' Else) where it appears the MM version is the keeper.

I just bought a bunch of used titles and got the following 4 as MMs instead of RVGs:

Donald Byrd Fuego

Donald Byrd At the Half Note Cafe Vols 1 & 2

Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers A Night In Tunisia

Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers The Big Beat

Has anybody had both versions of any of these titles and which one did you keep? Also, any MMs I should seek out instead of the RVG version?

[Spontooneous]

OK, I'll bite.

I still haven't heard a single stereo RVG that sounds better than the McMaster to my ear.

The mono RVGs are fine, though.

[jazzbo]

I haven't kept ANY McMasters. I like RVGs just fine.

[porcy62]

You guys have just won a platinum membership card of Steve Hoffman Forum.

[David Ayers]

I'm loving this thread.

[Dan Gould]

Has anybody had both versions of any of these titles and which one did you keep? Also, any MMs I should seek out instead of the RVG version?

Why base your own preference on the opinion of someone else (which is likely to be based in large part on their own stereo setup anyway)? Personally I wouldn't take such advice even if it was somehow held universally that a particular RVG or a particular McMaster should be avoided, or is the ultimate remastering or whatever.

[Stefan Wood]

There are instances where the RVGs are better (Larry Young's "Unity," Thelonious Monk's Blue Notes, Miles Davis' Volumes 1 & 2, JJ Johnson), and where McMaster is better (Jackie Mclean's "Demon Dance" and "Bluesnik"). In the end, it all depends on your stereo system and your ears -- and just enjoy the music!

[AndrewHill]

Second the RVG Monks; a marked improvement

[paul secor]

Just let Blue Note RIP and move on to other music. Then you won't have to worry about any of this.

[shaft]

Hi!

I can mention a few titles I've had the pleasure to compare side to side:

1. Morgan's "Sidewinder"

2. Dexter's "GO"

3. Blakey's "Moanin"

They are all terrible in RVG (and I mean terrible!)

/Shaft

[CJ Shearn]

"Prayer Meetin" sounds better in McMaster too.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Hi!

I can mention a few titles I've had the pleasure to compare side to side:

1. Morgan's "Sidewinder"

2. Dexter's "GO"

3. Blakey's "Moanin"

They are all terrible in RVG (and I mean terrible!)

/Shaft

I just listened to the McMaster & (J)RVG versions of 'Totem Pole'....and apart from some subtle differences in the low end (favoring the McMaster) "terrible" is not a word that springs to mind. God awful, maybe.......but not terrible!

[Stefan Wood]

Hi!

I can mention a few titles I've had the pleasure to compare side to side:

1. Morgan's "Sidewinder"

2. Dexter's "GO"

3. Blakey's "Moanin"

They are all terrible in RVG (and I mean terrible!)

/Shaft

I just listened to the McMaster & (J)RVG versions of 'Totem Pole'....and apart from some subtle differences in the low end (favoring the McMaster) "terrible" is not a word that springs to mind. God awful, maybe.......but not terrible!

What I've noticed on some of the RVG remasters are that the placement of the instruments change. In Jackie McLean's Demon Dance, the RVG version has Jackie's sound pushed back, giving an overall muddled sound, where in the McMaster, his sound is easily distinguishable from the others.

[AndrewHill]

Was Demon's Dance released in the superb TOCJ BN Works series? If so, how is the sound there?

[J.A.W.]

Was Demon's Dance released in the superb TOCJ BN Works series? If so, how is the sound there?

No, it wasn't.

[Clunky]

I generally find the differences subtle in the half dozen or so MM that I replaced with RVGs. UK posters might be well advised to look into their local Fopp chain where RVGs and whole pile of other BN material is just £3 per disc, I filled out some no essential holes like Look Out!, Lee Morgan 3, Delighfulee, etc for this modest outlay.

[Free For All]

That's funny, Somethin' Else was my first RVG and I thought it sounded much better than the previous. Go figure.

[Claude]

In my experience, most McMasters sound better than the RVGs.

Many early RVGs sound quite extreme, with boosted treble, reduced stereo spread, compressed dynamics. Later RVGs sound very similar to the McMasters.

At first, I found RVGs to sound more impressive, and the McMasters dull in comparison, but then - after hearing some TOCJ CDs, Music Maaters LPs and Analogue Productions SACDs, I'm convinced this perceived dullness is actually closer to how the tapes really sound.

When I listen to RVG CDs today, I don't hear the benefits of a new transfer from the tapes, but rather the post-transfer mastering tweaks Rudy Van Gelder chose, but which are subjective and in some case manipulative.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Claude

[Man with the Golden Arm]

there must be a hundred threads on this subject.

as an aside I stopped by the flagship Newbury Comics last nite and saw FIVE versions of 'Cool Struttin'' - on vinyl!

a Blue Note repress, a French import, one with a foil "stereo" stamped across the cover, a Japanese 100 yr Lion Anniv issue w/ obi and a Hoffman Gray Music Matters 45 double with a pubic hair floating inside the factory sealed plastic.

[Ron S]

with a pubic hair floating inside the factory sealed plastic.

Do they charge extra for that?

[Dan Gould]

Is it Steve's, Alfred's or Sonny's?

[Man with the Golden Arm]

I'm thinking of telling Chewy it fell from Ruth's skirt.

[Dan Gould]

[AndrewHill]

LMAO! That is a good one.

[Dave James]

Why base your own preference on the opinion of someone else (which is likely to be based in large part on their own stereo setup anyway)?

Agreed 100%. Too many variables. Listen to your own ears. Let them decide.