Coltrane Atlantic albums

[Popkin]

I've been thinking about upgrading my Coltrane Atlantic albums--I've got what I believe are the original cd reissues, from the late 80s I assume (given the blurb on the back of the booklet explaining what compact discs are and how to handle, store and clean them), with no bonus tracks for the most part. There seem to have been a number of different reissues since, and I'm wondering if anyone thinks there's any appreciable difference between them. In particular I was leaning towards the "deluxe" editions from the late 90s in the grey sleeves or the more recent "Atlantic Masters" with the red and black spine.

(Generally speaking, I get the impression that the recording quality of Coltrane's albums suffered quite a bit when he signed with Atlantic and stopped recording at the Van Gelder studio. Compared to the earlier Prestige albums and the later Impulse albums, they seem to sound pretty bad. I've always found that puzzling--didn't Atlantic have quite a bit of money?)

[felser]

I've been thinking about upgrading my Coltrane Atlantic albums--I've got what I believe are the original cd reissues, from the late 80s I assume (given the blurb on the back of the booklet explaining what compact discs are and how to handle, store and clean them), with no bonus tracks for the most part. There seem to have been a number of different reissues since, and I'm wondering if anyone thinks there's any appreciable difference between them. In particular I was leaning towards the "deluxe" editions from the late 90s in the grey sleeves or the more recent "Atlantic Masters" with the red and black spine.

(Generally speaking, I get the impression that the recording quality of Coltrane's albums suffered quite a bit when he signed with Atlantic and stopped recording at the Van Gelder studio. Compared to the earlier Prestige albums and the later Impulse albums, they seem to sound pretty bad. I've always found that puzzling--didn't Atlantic have quite a bit of money?)

I love the Heavyweight Champion box set of his Atlantic recordings. They sound good to me considering the source material (I'm sure there are arguments that other editions sound better, but how much so? - they were a big improvement over the original CD issues), and the packaging is top notch. The Atlantics did sound funky - what in the world was going on with the recording of Tommy Flanaga's piano on "Giant Steps"?

[brownie]

(Generally speaking, I get the impression that the recording quality of Coltrane's albums suffered quite a bit when he signed with Atlantic and stopped recording at the Van Gelder studio. Compared to the earlier Prestige albums and the later Impulse albums, they seem to sound pretty bad. I've always found that puzzling--didn't Atlantic have quite a bit of money?)

The sound of the Atlantic albums has been criticized on previous threads. I was a participant in the panning. The Atlantic Coltrane LPs did miss the crispness and naturalness of the albums from companies like Prestige and BN.

I have stayed away from the Atlantic CD reissues with the exception of the Heavyweight box because it contained previously unissued material. Bought this when it was released and refused to spend more money to purchase the LP box which came out shortly later!

[J.A.W.]

Considering that the recordings are not very good I don't think the sound on the original Atlantic Coltrane CDs is that bad. They were mastered by Stephen Innocenzi and some of them do have extra tracks compared to the LPs.

I'd avoid the later digipak reissues on Rhino, they sound as if the higher frequencies were boosted and I find them fatiguing. I don't have them anymore, but I believe the mastering was done by Dan Hersch.

The CD version of the Heavyweight Champion box sounds OK to me. It was mastered by Gene Paul.

Edited March 19, 2010 by J.A.W.

[Shrdlu]

The original recording sound was not great, especially when compared with Columbia and Rudy. The drums usually sound muddy, as if they were recorded inside a cardboard box. Along with many others, I wish that Rudy had recorded these wonderful and important sessions. It is well-known that Trane was very fond of Rudy, and glad to be back in his studio (new to him at that time) when he joined Impulse.

But that does not stop one getting deep into these albums. I had the original LPs, and I'm happy with the original CDs and the box set.

I've always found the MJQ albums (in any format) to be clear as a bell, though.

[David Ayers]

One reason that Atlantic CD sound is, uh, not what it could be, is that they were taken from the LP masters, not from the original master tapes which were destroyed in a fire. I beleive that's why the digipac issues are touted as 'original sound' but make no claims to being from the original masters.

[Shrdlu]

That's true, and is the reason why very little new material was available when the CD reissues were produced. Same with Impulse, though there it was company vandalism rather than a fire.

Ironically, the use of LP masters is one reason why the Japanese "Blue Note Works" CDs are the best CD reissues. That is partly because the more recent CDs (RVG, McMaster ad nauseam) came directly from the original session reels, some of which had deteriorated by the time they were hauled out of the vault to produce the new CDs.

[Popkin]

Well, I guess all this means I can't expect too much from any remasters of Coltrane's Atlantic albums. I plan to follow J.A.W.'s advice and avoid the digipak reissues on Rhino. Does anyone have anything negative to say about the "Atlantic Masters" series?

[Shawn]

I only have The Heavyweight Champion, that sounds fine to my ears. I heard one of the later reissues and wasn't impressed, so I've never bothered to upgrade.

[Chuck Nessa]

Me too.

[Spontooneous]

Does anybody know what kind of piano Atlantic had in the studio? Sounds like a really over-mic'd upright on most of the sessions. It bothers me more than any issues with the drums.

[jazzhound]

actually the original pressing of Giant Steps sounds quite good. I have also heard U.K. pressings of the Atlantic dates sound better than U.S. product so I think the fault is in the vinyl process rather than the recordings themselves.

[Chuck Nessa]

actually the original pressing of Giant Steps sounds quite good. I have also heard U.K. pressings of the Atlantic dates sound better than U.S. product so I think the fault is in the vinyl process rather than the recordings themselves.

Explain the "vinyl process" you see as a fault.

[jazzhound]

actually the original pressing of Giant Steps sounds quite good. I have also heard U.K. pressings of the Atlantic dates sound better than U.S. product so I think the fault is in the vinyl process rather than the recordings themselves.

Explain the "vinyl process" you see as a fault.

don't know. could be mastering or use of low quality vinyl.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Does anybody know what kind of piano Atlantic had in the studio? Sounds like a really over-mic'd upright on most of the sessions. It bothers me more than any issues with the drums.

Not on the one I was listening to this morning. Was John Lewis really there?

[Late]

I plan to follow J.A.W.'s advice and avoid the digipak reissues on Rhino.

The box set is a good way to go. If you don't mind paying import prices, I also strongly recommend the WPCR series (mini-LPs) of Coltrane's Atlantic output. These CDs have most of (if not all) the bonus tracks. Nice packaging, great sound, 24-bit blah blah. Keepers for sure.

[Shrdlu]

After all this, I'd say that the music is fantastic, and all the various LP and CD versions are more than listenable. Don't worry too much about which issue you have. You will still be able to enjoy it all.

I have the box set, and that is the version I usually play.

The sound limitations go back to the original sessions. Atlantic just didn't have the best combination of engineers, equipment and studio. Possibly they used a lot of baffles and screens to obtain sound separation, and these absorbed some top end. I hate those in a studio and I think Rudy was right to leave everyone open and together. I don't like recording in a box with headphones.

This sound problem is odd, because the Erteguns and the engineers were all real nice guys who loved, and were loved by, the musicians.

[John L]

After all this, I'd say that the music is fantastic, and all the various LP and CD versions are more than listenable. Don't worry too much about which issue you have. You will still be able to enjoy it all.

I have the box set, and that is the version I usually play.

The sound limitations go back to the original sessions. Atlantic just didn't have the best combination of engineers, equipment and studio. Possibly they used a lot of baffles and screens to obtain sound separation, and these absorbed some top end. I hate those in a studio and I think Rudy was right to leave everyone open and together. I don't like recording in a box with headphones.

This sound problem is odd, because the Erteguns and the engineers were all real nice guys who loved, and were loved by, the musicians.

In addition to good quality sound, I have always considered the Coltrane Atlantic box to be one of the most pleasantly packaged and user-friendly boxes ever made. I love the little touches here and there: the full discographical information on the package of each separate disc, the hard cover booklet with an excellent essay and photos, the separate and innovative packaging for the previously unreleased material.

I often have the unfortunate experience of listening to music less after I buy a box set just because accessing exactly what I feel like listening to becomes more complicated than reaching for an individual disc. The Coltrane Atlantic set is a major exception. It makes listening even more pleasant.

[AmirBagachelles]

i listened to My Favorite Things tonight, for an emotional lift. I have five of the Coltrane Atlantic titles from East-West of Japan. They all sound pretty bad, but I like the artwork on the cardboard sleeves, especially with the notes right on back. No info on the remastering though, they just indicate K2. Gotta get the old real vinyl for these.

[king ubu]

That box was my very first box set and has remained a favourite... no sound issues as far as my admittedly bad ears can tell...

[porcy62]

IMHO the best sounding Atlantic's Coltrane are the mono originals at least the fews I have, though not so great to spend big bucks for them. Same for Ornette's ones.

[felser]

IMHO the best sounding Atlantic's Coltrane are the mono originals at least the fews I have, though not so great to spend big bucks for them. Same for Ornette's ones.

BTW, the Ornette box set on Rhino/Atlantic is fabulously done also, sort of along the same lines as the Coltrane box set.

[porcy62]

IMHO the best sounding Atlantic's Coltrane are the mono originals at least the fews I have, though not so great to spend big bucks for them. Same for Ornette's ones.

BTW, the Ornette box set on Rhino/Atlantic is fabulously done also, sort of along the same lines as the Coltrane box set.

Yep, the Mingus too. And as for Trane and Ornette, the original monos are better. For some unknown reasons, Mingus' and Ornette's fetch lower prices then Trane's, Pithecanthropus Erectus a part.

[king ubu]

IMHO the best sounding Atlantic's Coltrane are the mono originals at least the fews I have, though not so great to spend big bucks for them. Same for Ornette's ones.

BTW, the Ornette box set on Rhino/Atlantic is fabulously done also, sort of along the same lines as the Coltrane box set.

Yep, the Mingus too. [...]

Yup, all three great boxes! But with the Ornette, the booklet might eventually fall apart...

[skeith]

My only problem with the Ornette box and I own it, is that I miss the sequencing of the original Lps. THese boxes have this passion about chronology or session order which I do not care about in the least.