AllenLowe Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 (edited) A recent revelation: it has taken me maybe 40 years to figure it out, but I have come to the conclusion that the reason "contemporary" American performers hit so many stylistic and artistic walls is the fact that we know all too well who they are. At some point the ego of audience reception takes over, due to financial or whatever other reasons. We see the need to tour and record and repeat the process - particularly in rock and roll, but also in jazz. The result is repetition and boredom and more repetition and boredom (think also, Bob Dylan and Lou Reed, both of whom should have quit while they were ahead. And then think of all the crappy jazz CDs of all genres that come out month after month after month....) This, I now think, is at the root of the failure of so many musicians to grow - and if not grow, than to just STOP. The best performer is the invisible performer, physically anonymous, and just not present. I think it's finally time for almost everyone to disappear. -your faithful musical burnout, Allen Lowe Edited February 28, 2010 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy T. Frog Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 A recent revelation: it has taken me maybe 40 years to figure it out, but I have come to the conclusion that the reason "contemporary" American performers hit so many stylistic and artistic walls is the fact that we know all too well who they are. At some point the ego of audience reception takes over, due to financial or whatever other reasons. We see the need to tour and record and repeat the process - particularly in rock and roll, but also in jazz. The result is repetition and boredom and more repetition and boredom (think also, Bob Dylan and Lou Reed, both of whom should have quit while they were ahead. And then think of all the crappy jazz CDs of all genres that come out month after month after month....) This, I now think, is at the root of the failure of so many musicians to grow - and if not grow, than to just STOP. The best performer is the invisible performer, physically anonymous, and just not present. I think it's finally time for almost everyone to disappear. -your faithful musical burnout, Allen Lowe I think that this is true in "overground" circles, but not true in "underground" circles where lately stylistic flitting is seen as a virtue (I don't mean that in a pejorative sense), and artists sometimes end up in different places from where they began. These artists aren't maybe anonymous, but they exist outside the label/tour complex where there isn't $$$ depending on fulfilling "expectations". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 The best performer is the invisible performer, physically anonymous, and just not present. So, how would such a performer get a hearing? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 recordings - like a writer whose books are read but who remains at home - but these would have to be more limited than they tend to be today, when everybody in jazz-land is recording 4 cds a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Barton Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 So where would you fit someone like Bill Dixon or Ornette Coleman into this picture? Neither one has recorded very prolifically over the past few years. Neither one has "stalled" creatively either. Are they already "invisible"? I'd venture the opinion that they are indeed invisible to the mass audience, but their personalities aren't exactly conducive to being meek stay-at-home creators. Many others could be added to this list. Wadada Leo Smith, Fred Anderson, Muhal Richard Abrams and Roscoe Mitchell are names that immediately spring to mind. And what about live performance? Can one truly be "invisible" or "egoless" in performance? For me, live performance is where it's at. Recordings are a whole other ballgame. I definitely can relate to your comments about CDs though, Allen. Some fans may think that it's all peaches and cream being in the loop for review copies these days, but you have no idea (well, maybe you do) of how much absolute drek one has to sift through to find the good stuff. That's not really a new development, it's just more obvious these days with the sheer bulk of material being released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Some fans may think that it's all peaches and cream being in the loop for review copies these days, but you have no idea (well, maybe you do) of how much absolute drek one has to sift through to find the good stuff. Personally, after having been on the freebie gravy train at various times in my life, I am more than happy to be paying for records these days. (Although I DID score a pretty snazzy freebie last week ...) Another, related, problem is the length of CDs, which artists all over seem to feel obliged to fill to the maximum 77 minutes or whatever it is. Damn - give me 20 minutes of brilliance any day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted March 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 (edited) I don't mean that no one should record - only that a recording should be like a novel, carefully planned, a statement, even a profound statement. And by invisibility I don't mean that musicans should not be around, should not perform - only that they should be judicious in such performances, should perform the material that is ready for performance. though I realize most of this is impractical for reasons of making a living. it's just that the "I" of the performer needs to detach itself, needs to become more impersonal, paradoxically, in order to achieve a more deeply personal level of expression. Otherwise musicians, llike novelists, get bound by bourgeouise conventions of reality. This is a principle that goes back to Rimbaud, of the so-called artist (a term I've come to hate) creating a deeper reality by separating him/herself from the kind of reality which is less reality than an imitation of received ideas of reality. And in jazz, the more "product" that comes out, the more tied are we to pre-conceived ideas of experience and the less are we likely to cut through the surfaces of pre-digested ideas. **** ***unless one is trying to get Bear Family to spring for a free Boxed Set Edited March 1, 2010 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Barton Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Aha! Now I get it... Very interesting and very thought-provoking. Ornette and Bill Dixon are definitely "invisible" by that criteria. They only record when they have something important to "say." I'd be interested to hear your "take" on Satoko Fujii, Allen, who is likely the most prolific major artist in terms of recordings. Thing is, to my ears and for my taste, all of 'em are worthwhile, though of course some are "better" than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Barton Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 ...Another, related, problem is the length of CDs, which artists all over seem to feel obliged to fill to the maximum 77 minutes or whatever it is. Damn - give me 20 minutes of brilliance any day! Agreed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted March 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 (edited) "Satoko Fujii" - will give a listen - the problem with all of this is that unless one has a day gig (academic, pimping, insurance) - it is very hard to not be part of the gig hustle. And I actually have no problem with that, as the improviser often thrives on steady work (and there are actually a few musicians who make a good living at it). But there's just too much out there. The digital revolution has probably made it too easy, and the collapse of the CD business (like the fall of Communism) has further confused things. Even good music is repeated in terms of form and content, over and over (like the same bebop solo). I don't really have a solution to all of this. Edited March 1, 2010 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 My experience has been that people usually don't let not having a whole lot to say get in the way of them saying it. That's the bad news. Of course, the good news is that for those who feel that obscurity, limited opportunity, and general lack of interest will give them something more to say, opportunities abound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 (edited) Can't speak for the big-time pop world, but the problem in jazz it seems to me is not too many gigs but not enough gigs. One of the major reasons Miles, Trane, Mingus and so many of the great bands of the past evolved so swiftly and produced so much innovative music was that they were working constantly -- several sets a night, 6 nights a week, month after month after month, into year after year. Put the right musicians in that crucible and you'll move from "Seven Steps to Heaven" to "Nefertiti" or "Giant Steps" to "Meditations" at an astounding rate. Which is not to say that artists don't benefit from a time out and the opportunity to rest, re-evaluate, explore new ideas without the pressure of the next gig or audience expectations or whatever. Edited March 1, 2010 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Aha! Now I get it... Very interesting and very thought-provoking. Ornette and Bill Dixon are definitely "invisible" by that criteria. They only record when they have something important to "say." I'd be interested to hear your "take" on Satoko Fujii, Allen, who is likely the most prolific major artist in terms of recordings. Thing is, to my ears and for my taste, all of 'em are worthwhile, though of course some are "better" than others. Thanks to a kind publicist, I've just encountered four CDs by Fujii and her husband, trumpeter Natsuki Tamura -- Zakopane (S. Fujii Orchestra Tokyo), Desert Ship (S. Fujii Ma-Do, a quartet with Tamura, a bassist and drummer); Gato Libre (a Tamura-led quartet, with Fujii on accordion, a bassist and guitarist), and First Meeting (a Tamura quartet, with Fujii, a guitarist and a drummer). Sampling the music so far, I'm impressed that each album/group has its own flavor and that the most "out" of the four, the wholly improvised First Meeting (Tamura says it's a "noise band") is so lucid. So far I'm least taken with the orchestral record -- the writing seemed a bit perfunctory and/or frame-like -- but that was after only two tracks out of eight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 (edited) Can't speak for the big-time pop world, but the problem in jazz it seems to me is not too many gigs but not enough gigs. One of the major reasons Miles, Trane, Mingus and so many of the great bands of the past evolved so swiftly and produced so much innovative music was that they were working constantly -- several sets a night, 6 nights a week, month after month after month, into year after year. Put the right musicians in that crucible and you'll move from "Seven Steps to Heaven" to "Nefertiti" or "Giant Steps" to "Meditations" at an astounding rate. Which is not to say that artists don't benefit from a time out and the opportunity to rest, re-evaluate, explore new ideas without the pressure of the next gig or audience expectations or whatever. otoh, what steady gigs usually do for people who don't really have all that much to say is to broaden their ways to say it. I don't know of any "process" that will make somebody interesting, perceptive, original, whatever. Either you are or you aren't. Them that are usually/eventually find ways to protect & nurture it as best they can under any given set of circumstances. Them that aren't find ways to avoid confronting it, including avoiding silence (at many different levels). Edited March 1, 2010 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 (edited) Can't speak for the big-time pop world, but the problem in jazz it seems to me is not too many gigs but not enough gigs. One of the major reasons Miles, Trane, Mingus and so many of the great bands of the past evolved so swiftly and produced so much innovative music was that they were working constantly -- several sets a night, 6 nights a week, month after month after month, into year after year. Put the right musicians in that crucible and you'll move from "Seven Steps to Heaven" to "Nefertiti" or "Giant Steps" to "Meditations" at an astounding rate. Which is not to say that artists don't benefit from a time out and the opportunity to rest, re-evaluate, explore new ideas without the pressure of the next gig or audience expectations or whatever. otoh, what steady gigs usually do for people who don't really have all that much to say is to broaden their ways to say it. I don't know of any "process" that will make somebody interesting, perceptive, original, whatever. Either you are or you aren't. Them that are usually/eventually find ways to protect & nurture it as best they can under any given set of circumstances. Them that aren't find ways to avoid confronting it, including avoiding silence (at many different levels). I'll buy that. But I also know of way too many dynamite musicians, from foot soldiers to a few stars, who if they had the opportunities that the players had back in the day to really hone their voices and ideas on the bandstand via regular club work, might really get to something. I'm not saying we could produce another Trane; I am saying that fewer opportunities all around diminishes the health and potential of the music, even if one byproduct of more work would be a lot of mid-level players jogging in place. I'll take that trade-off if you know what I mean. Edited March 1, 2010 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Oh, I agree completely. From experience, I know that the more (and the more often) you play out, the more overall positive stimulation you get. I just don't buy the notion that if everybody was able just chill out & "focus on their art", so to speak, that we'd see a resultant increase in work of substance. I think we'd just see a bunch of not-so-creative people being less public with their not-so-creativeness, which, yeah, that would as much a gain to the overall landscape as would be seeing those same people reach a higher level of not-so-creativeness. Six of one, apples and oranges of the other, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Barton Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Can't speak for the big-time pop world, but the problem in jazz it seems to me is not too many gigs but not enough gigs. One of the major reasons Miles, Trane, Mingus and so many of the great bands of the past evolved so swiftly and produced so much innovative music was that they were working constantly -- several sets a night, 6 nights a week, month after month after month, into year after year. Put the right musicians in that crucible and you'll move from "Seven Steps to Heaven" to "Nefertiti" or "Giant Steps" to "Meditations" at an astounding rate. Which is not to say that artists don't benefit from a time out and the opportunity to rest, re-evaluate, explore new ideas without the pressure of the next gig or audience expectations or whatever. This is a very, very good point, Mark. Although, for the comparatively small size of the city, Seattle has what appears on the surface to be a very healthy jazz scene, I hear from many musicians (particularly those who are - for lack of a better term - "mainstream" players) that there are way too few places to play. Tula's is really the only club/restaurant that features straight-ahead jazz on a regular basis. In fact, even in these "iffy" economic times they have live music seven nights per week and even a "matinee" on Sundays. With the large number of world-class players in the Seattle area, it's obvious that only a small percentage of them have regular or even semi-regular gigs. Aha! Now I get it... Very interesting and very thought-provoking. Ornette and Bill Dixon are definitely "invisible" by that criteria. They only record when they have something important to "say." I'd be interested to hear your "take" on Satoko Fujii, Allen, who is likely the most prolific major artist in terms of recordings. Thing is, to my ears and for my taste, all of 'em are worthwhile, though of course some are "better" than others. Thanks to a kind publicist, I've just encountered four CDs by Fujii and her husband, trumpeter Natsuki Tamura -- Zakopane (S. Fujii Orchestra Tokyo), Desert Ship (S. Fujii Ma-Do, a quartet with Tamura, a bassist and drummer); Gato Libre (a Tamura-led quartet, with Fujii on accordion, a bassist and guitarist), and First Meeting (a Tamura quartet, with Fujii, a guitarist and a drummer). Sampling the music so far, I'm impressed that each album/group has its own flavor and that the most "out" of the four, the wholly improvised First Meeting (Tamura says it's a "noise band") is so lucid. So far I'm least taken with the orchestral record -- the writing seemed a bit perfunctory and/or frame-like -- but that was after only two tracks out of eight. Ah, yes, the lovely and very effective Ann Braithwaite! She is one of the most consistent independent promoters in the business. Unlike many who basically promote anything they're paid to promote, Braithwaite & Katz seem to have a commitment to quality. They're also behind the superb Artifacts: Great Performances from 40 Years of Jazz at NEC disc. The Satoko Fujii/Natsuki Tamura discs arrived in the mail today and I'm champing at the bit to check 'em out. I swear the woman never sleeps! In 2006 she released CDs by four different big bands based in four different cities simultaneously, so this release package is kind of deja vu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Aha! Now I get it... Very interesting and very thought-provoking. Ornette and Bill Dixon are definitely "invisible" by that criteria. They only record when they have something important to "say." I'd be interested to hear your "take" on Satoko Fujii, Allen, who is likely the most prolific major artist in terms of recordings. Thing is, to my ears and for my taste, all of 'em are worthwhile, though of course some are "better" than others. Thanks to a kind publicist, I've just encountered four CDs by Fujii and her husband, trumpeter Natsuki Tamura -- Zakopane (S. Fujii Orchestra Tokyo), Desert Ship (S. Fujii Ma-Do, a quartet with Tamura, a bassist and drummer); Gato Libre (a Tamura-led quartet, with Fujii on accordion, a bassist and guitarist), and First Meeting (a Tamura quartet, with Fujii, a guitarist and a drummer). Sampling the music so far, I'm impressed that each album/group has its own flavor and that the most "out" of the four, the wholly improvised First Meeting (Tamura says it's a "noise band") is so lucid. So far I'm least taken with the orchestral record -- the writing seemed a bit perfunctory and/or frame-like -- but that was after only two tracks out of eight. Ah, yes, the lovely and very effective Ann Braithwaite! She is one of the most consistent independent promoters in the business. Unlike many who basically promote anything they're paid to promote, Braithwaite & Katz seem to have a commitment to quality. They're also behind the superb Artifacts: Great Performances from 40 Years of Jazz at NEC disc. The Satoko Fujii/Natsuki Tamura discs arrived in the mail today and I'm champing at the bit to check 'em out. I swear the woman never sleeps! In 2006 she released CDs by four different big bands based in four different cities simultaneously, so this release package is kind of deja vu. Have listened to all of Desert Ship and most of Zakopane now. My second thoughts on Zakopane are a good bit more positive than my first ones -- nothing frame-like about the writing on "Zee" or the next three pieces -- and Desert Ship is excellent (that drummer!). I've said "lucid" before, and I hesitate to say this because I'm invoking a personal Holy of Holies, but the clarity/compactness/wit amidst very rapid shifts on the best of Desert Ship brings Roscoe Mitchell's The Little Suite to mind -- perhaps in part because Tamura sounds like he's listened to Lester Bowie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Can't speak for the big-time pop world, but the problem in jazz it seems to me is not too many gigs but not enough gigs. One of the major reasons Miles, Trane, Mingus and so many of the great bands of the past evolved so swiftly and produced so much innovative music was that they were working constantly -- several sets a night, 6 nights a week, month after month after month, into year after year. Put the right musicians in that crucible and you'll move from "Seven Steps to Heaven" to "Nefertiti" or "Giant Steps" to "Meditations" at an astounding rate. Which is not to say that artists don't benefit from a time out and the opportunity to rest, re-evaluate, explore new ideas without the pressure of the next gig or audience expectations or whatever. otoh, what steady gigs usually do for people who don't really have all that much to say is to broaden their ways to say it. I don't know of any "process" that will make somebody interesting, perceptive, original, whatever. Either you are or you aren't. Them that are usually/eventually find ways to protect & nurture it as best they can under any given set of circumstances. Them that aren't find ways to avoid confronting it, including avoiding silence (at many different levels). Keep in mind, also, that this music is now taught in colleges and with Master's level coursework/education, producing nice little leader-packages ready to record for Fresh Sound New Talent or any other series of labels. There isn't quite the "university" of going through other players' bands for months and years, with the held-over runs at the Five Spot and the Vanguard (or wherever) to aid in that definition of a musical personality. And that's just it - personality is what is often lacking through this new process. It's a different reality. But that's not to say that with some time and some settling, that reality will produce equally interesting players and performance structures. They might just look a bit different. Of the "new guard," I'm consistently nodding in utmost respect for Talibam!, Mary Halvorson, Weasel Walter, Aram Shelton, Jason Adasiewicz, Rob Mazurek, Nate Wooley, Mike Reed, and Rodrigo Amado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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